: BILL MARSH/ November 21th, 1999

13:00 - 13:30
[13:00] echo bows to joe, gesture of palms together
  Djuna poetry ...
  echo is life
  reiner no ...
  David do you make a distinction between good for poetry, and good for a poet?
[13:01] disgruntled poetry is life approaching poetry
  Surd Do you mean, Joe, how do we further the art?
  billseye i have a hard time with "doing good for" too -- if i introduced that terminology, i apologize -- it's shorthand for keeping busy with what you love, i'd say
disgruntled ah Desire!
echo we are wildly today
[13:02] echo enter cybele
  Surd We are certainly numerous today.
echo may i suggest
  echo focus on one piece
[13:03] echo i am getting lost
  billseye "<disgruntled> poetry is life" (m. and) ;)
echo please?
Surd Well, there are some interesting questions and issues open right now.
echo yes
  echo can we take one example
[13:04] echo and relate these questions?
billseye it is a bit like dealing blackjack here -- anyone else see that?
echo just a suggestion
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  Surd Howso, Bill?
  reiner yes bill ;)
echo yes
  billseye keeping different hands going
  tompur yo to the acid influx!
  Surd ha
[13:05] acidburn hello
  reiner hey
echo hi, you are?
  acidburn so where are you from??
  tompur from the planet webartery of course
[13:06] echo webarterians
  jfk bill, no apologies necessary for doing good as a practice and a choice of words. i've only just peeked at your site and can see that you're concerned with both the art and the presentation of it. doing good seems to mean to deliver the work nicely to a basically disinterested world, no?
  Surd Well there's the whole question of how a venture in publishing and writing and broadcasting and criticism etc, what we can do this way to further the art.
  acidburn what galaxy??? no really...
  David hi, acidbum. We're talking about the influences of the web on poetry and art in general.
tompur this is a general discussion not an open chat
[13:07] tompur sometimes
disgruntled joe I think good, if one has to use such terms, has more to do with one's life, just as you were saying.
  echo would seem the world is disinterested
acidburn oh like classical poerty i like Neruda -- have you ever read him??
Surd Read first please acidburn.
echo but its because of the definition of poetry to the street urchins
echo like myself
[13:08] steve_d poetry has spent too long on the page
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echo the world has a strange idea of poetry
billseye the world according to acidburn
echo but
jfk of being numerous on the web does a lot of good, let's vote, eh?
echo i think there is hope
Djuna i think that we have to watch out - i.e., because any one can now 'publish,' there's a hell of a lot of garbage out there called 'poetry'
  echo yes, it does, joe
  tompur neruda on the web . . . what'd that be like? you could compare altavista translations to bly's translations . . ehehe
[13:09] echo it would be like the sea
disgruntled claire, that has always been true in the small press movement & the zine revolution
  steve_d lots of garbage in books too
echo code written on a wall
[13:10] echo yes
echo but
Surd Rather than concentrating on poetry and literature and those worlds or small press etc., I try to see our Web works in relation to the Web and the emerging and remediated aspects thereof.
David grafitti code...nice!
echo that's the point
tompur one man's garbage is another's . . . blank
  billseye i think publishing in general is an invitation to explore -- it's interesting how with paper you have to get the work out there, but on the web, you have to get the readers *in there*, ie, to visit the site -- is the world disinterested or distracted?
  Djuna (sorry: 'thunderhead of judgement' here [she read too much banal blather]
Surd In relation to the larger culture, not simply speaking within the literary worlds.
echo banal blather..see my work:o)
tompur I just wish I could get published anywhere . . . ;-)
Djuna above: you're right, it was just a reaction to last night's surfing
jfk tom, why?
  disgruntled publish yr self tom, there's probably a copy shop within walking distance of you.
[13:12] tompur Increase the circle . . . I was talking with beth about Maslow's hierarchy of needs last night
tompur is it my noose?
echo whisper
  tompur I've done that . . .publish myself . . . and it wasn't as fulfilling
[13:13] tompur as I imagine
disgruntled Ive had the opposite experience more often
tompur explain?
disgruntled when I publish my own works, I have much more control over presentation
disgruntled editing, content, etc.
[13:14] disgruntled the last couple cd-rom projects I've been on, I can't even read them from my own computer.
tompur ahhh i c
reiner albany :)
disgruntled this is especially what I think liberating about web presentations...
[13:15] David Does anyone imagine that the audience for advanced work will ever be large?
disgruntled that we get beyond the notion of being published by someone --
echo oh yes...!
disgruntled as if that means something for the resume...
billseye self-publishing is frowned upon, for a lot of reasons mostly tied to fetishization of publishing -- i've always liked miekal's notion of "assuming control of one's work" -- like painters do with their work, for example
tompur large . . . in depth . . . or in width?
[13:16] disgruntled Im not that utopian david k, that's a hard one to imagine...
David in number.
Djuna bill, a couple of months ago I purchased a hard-copy book from Paper Brain press of a work you did in collaboration over the web with Sheila Murphy -
tompur generation to generation or in the now
echo if you work with children, you will see that it's not that far off
echo considering the ways
disgruntled go sheila murphy.
echo language and memory
[13:17] Djuna can you talk about that? the experience of creating in the wired?
steve_d must go - duty calls - thanx everyone ...
echo and the world is changing
jfk bill, please try to explain why you are doing (i won't write good) what you are doing. your work with print and screen enables poets and others to see and to sample. do you also want what jim is saying to further the art?
echo bye steve!
Surd Thanks, Steve.
reiner bye
steve_d gone me
tompur yo steve! lata'
disgruntled seeyasteved
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billseye actually, that was (bye Steve) Peter Ganick and Sheila E.
[13:18] billseye i like the idea of the Web as a broadcast medium
disgruntled <interactive> broadcast medium
Djuna oh lord - did I stichk my foot in it or what? sorry?
[13:19] disgruntled claire I do that all the time, mix up authors in my head..
[13:20] Djuna I met them (their art) all at once, so
echo sheila and peter have written a lot of books together, sometimes they seem seamless in these collabs
echo :o)
billseye if you have RealPlayer (might need G2 but not sure), you can take a look at "TidalVision" which is just a hint of what we'd like to do with Sunbrella -- this is actually an abridged version of the video sculpture that i and my friend/collaborator (Octavia Davis) presented at Dig Arts and Culture in Atlanta last month
Surd url?
[13:21] echo his (peter's) machine doesn't accept cookies, so he couldn't stay on webartery or be here..
billseye Claire, please don't stich your foot ;)
[13:22] Djuna lol!
David bill, what do you think about the difference between side-by-side transmission
disgruntled is there anyway to back channel here?
billseye i liked the murphy/ganick thing (i admit) because it started in email -- the concept appeals to me, but as far as the book goes, i don't think it matters -- and also of course because it was collaborative -- and sheila and peter seam so alike in their writing
David and the overlapped images that you used in the web version?
[13:23] echo interesting to me, that their work, in email
disgruntled thks
echo and the one they wrote together in irl this summer, montana grill
disgruntled can you send me the hard disk tool kit
[13:24] echo isn't much different
billseye i don't think this version is very good -- image quality etc. -- the side-by-side, we found, drew people's attention away from the chaotic dispersion of the surfing and "into" the waves -- that's missing here
echo when we consider the ways that this medium can distort the word
David what about the scale difference?
jfk distort the word distort the mind
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Djuna i'm watching tidal vision - TOO cool!
[13:26] echo yes. it stretches the mind in different thought patterns
billseye there's a text statement (on the main sunbrella page) that mentions framing and feeding back the broadcast -- i think changing *normal* scale (ie, not a 15" TV) helps that -- also a good excuse for keeping file size small!
echo but all writing does that
David I thought the overlap worked well. It fused the ideas in a way that the side-by-side may not have.
[13:27] billseye yeah, david -- the fusion i like as a trade for the conflict you'd see in the other version
reiner ... cannot look at the realaudio --- bad connection --- sorry
[13:28] billseye folks: nature calls, back in a minute...
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echo we had to know that, bill:o)
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