: BILL MARSH/ November 21th, 1999

14:00 - 14:30
Surd ?
[13:58] Djuna oh, fyi Bill, the pages I viewed were static? am I being dumb? did I miss something?)
tompur 81 . . . also in numerology you'd add the 8+1 of 81 to make 9 . . . which is a spiritual number of something?
billseye i think i mentioned it in the first email, but the series is titled "Tao Drops" -- i'm rewriting the poems in my translation of the Tao Te Ching -- 81 of them
[13:59] mIEKAL what translation are you working from bill?
billseye yes, static, but the movement takes place in the daily activity of it -- real world dynamic mark-up? -- a kind of meta-streaming?
[14:00] Djuna that's what I find interesting - the anti-thesis of Toa and the web. nature vs ...
Surd Dynamic, then, in the sense that you are responding to feedback about the pieces?
billseye translation by Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English (btw, in reaching for the book, i knocked my phone into the trash can -- hmmmm...)
Djuna (hmmm, I wonder what Loa Tzu would have thought of this age?)
jfk sorry, i was disconnected by my daughter Jacqueline who has accused me of being on too long
Surd I've got that translation, the book also of photographs, wonderful
[14:01] Surd No prob, Joe.
echo uhoh..one phone line and teens?
echo :o)
mIEKAL homophonic translations are fun as well, but you'd have to find a version of the tao in transliterated chinese.
Surd Dow vs Tao
[14:02] David Nuts. Time has fled. Thanks, all. Great work, Bill.
billseye yes, i'm kinda stealing the images too and reworking them in Photoshop -- hi again Joe -- or dynamic in the sense that folks either do or don't respond to them
Djuna exactly what I mean!
billseye see ya david -- thanks
*** David has left #defib
echo bye david, it was excellent to read you here
Djuna bye
jfk adios
[14:03] mIEKAL we are participating in a broadcast this very minute, are we not?
Surd yes
Surd The text here is animated.
Surd very dynamic
billseye also, i'm thinking (re the Drops) of adding more dynamism and interactivity as i go -- building speed maybe, and then maybe arcing back down to full-stop
[14:04] jfk more like a chat or a conference call in email
billseye yes, miekal, jim and i chatted pre-show about how this is real-time interactive broadcast, eh?
Surd animated text in the sense that it is so responsive
[14:05] tompur break out the webcams and we got a party of heads here
mIEKAL I was trying to figure out how we can chat here, & be able to trigger sounds or images & animations onto the same page, another frame.
jfk surd aka JIM...this is jackie....my computer doesn't seem to work anymore...it won't connect...help me!! profesh computer man....pps-EVERYONE shop at shopnow.com thanks ;)
Surd there is a person immediately between each letter
Djuna i'm not sure Bill - there's a remarkable peace (shall we say) within the pages - the first thing I do these past days when I wake up - part of my 'morning ritual'
Djuna that speaks out of a voice more eternal (to me) than time bound (as most of my day is)
Surd sorry, Jackie, later.
[14:06] jfk yea thanks...
billseye wow, Claire, please email me something along those lines so i can put in the "diary"
[14:07] Djuna of course
mIEKAL bill, are you looking to grow the cc list assoicated with the taodrops project, I can probably give you some more addresses.
billseye well, i have about 25 minutes -- anything else anybody wants to talk about? -- let's open the floor (perhaps even more than it has been!)
mIEKAL & it would be neat to see you putting that thru the poetics list every day.
mIEKAL but then you'd have to read the list (guess you could do digest)
Surd And webartery.
[14:08] echo i would love to see this!
billseye miekal, yes, PLEASE send any emails you think would appreciate it -- that's part of the idea! -- no, NOT poetics...
echo memememe!
billseye beth, please advance your email via webartery (or here i guess)
[14:09] echo i need all the peace i can find!
*** mIEKAL has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer.)
echo Beth <emgar@uswest.net>
[14:10] Surd I'm sorry we weren't able to get into the fine critical work you've been doing both at your site via your essays and at webartery in stimulating great discussion in furthering the poetics of hypermediated art, Bill. This medium is perhaps not best suited for that concentratedly intense reflection...
billseye not webartery either, though i expect a lot on that list will be in the cc field -- i guess there's something about its going out to "individuals" that i prefer, ie, as distinct from "mass-mailings" to discussion lists
billseye got it beth!
billseye jim, let's talk shop a bit -- i'm game!
[14:11] echo thanks...
Djuna moi aussi!
Surd You did a piece
Surd on memory
Surd hypertext
Surd and poetry
Surd quite a while ago.
Djuna bill, I've found your posts to the list very exciting
Surd Tell me about that piece.
billseye claire, l'addresse d'email, s'il-te-plait...
[14:12] *** mIEKAL has joined #defib
[14:13] mIEKAL got kicked out again
Djuna (oh - I m afraid I don't speak speak French, just being my poetically pre-tentious self again...)
billseye i was reading this book (quoted a lot in the essay) on the evolution of consciousness and "external memory systems" -- it was helpful for me to put hypertext in that context of "same brain--new machine" -- and also to suggest a poetics for a more "kinetic" web writing
[14:14] tompur moof has been after you as well, eh miekal?
echo yes. bill is going to talk about a piece on poetry, memory and hypertext
billseye claire, no problema, gracias for "liking posts"
mIEKAL which book bill...
Surd What was the book again, Bill?
billseye hold on...
[14:15] Surd I'm reading the book Carolyn Guertin suggested called The Art of Memory right now by Francis Yates.
billseye Donald, Merlin. Origins of the Modern Mind: Three Stages in the Evolution of Culture and Cognition. Harvard University Press, 1991.
mIEKAL thnks
[14:16] Surd It seems that the cognitive changes we might speculate will happen
billseye and the essay's at http://www.sunbrella.net/btheater/works/essays/hypertext/expos/exposing.html
Surd via the influence of this medium
Surd are related to matters of memory and language.
Surd Exposing the Nerve
Djuna I've been querying hypertext a lot these past few days - a curious medium as it seems there are so many varied notions as to what it means/is
[14:17] mIEKAL is hypertext the accumulation of all those notions..
echo reflective of hypertext itself, claire?
mIEKAL can't type, meant to say isn't hypertext...
Djuna I have not read the essay, Bill, can you give us an abstract (as it were?)
[14:18] Djuna summation
[14:20] Djuna (damn I wish I'd been more pre-pared! we should maybe look at these chats as classes we should be ready for)
Surd Yes, you're right.
[14:21] Surd I feel that we should almost reschedule this one, but I might be wrong in reading the transcript.
billseye it oversimplifies a bit, but i think there's something to the idea that we build "externally" what we like to do "internally" (biologically, physiologically, pyschologically) -- hypertext as linked nodes builds an "association machine" -- i think the "Nerve" essay was basically an attempt to demystify and demythify the "new" in hypertext theory of early 90's
billseye what do you mean, jim -- why?
[14:23] Surd I'm not sure there's a followable or coherent view to your work, Bill, via the total diffusion of the conversation. But I'm not sure about this, the transcript will be a different experience.
Djuna ah - but if you look at such things as the recent forum at Poets & Writers, that BAD /New mystery/warning still pervades practitioners (writers) - even those versed in the web
mIEKAL I think this forum would have to be moderated to have that kind of focus.
[14:24] Surd Yes, Bill
Surd you've been doing
Surd interesting work
Surd in relating
Surd previous poetics
Surd to current developments.
Surd Is that what you mean?
[14:25] Djuna and your summation above seems to still be needed by many - and you're right, actually, it does seem to be a rather natural progression
billseye agree with miekal -- i feel we've touched on a lot of things and started things off -- good experience
[14:26] Djuna as hypertext can simulate the creative/thought processes more than the page as the mind is always working on a lot of different levels simultaneously
billseye yes, jim, i want to see in what ways the new work evolutionizes the old -- but also lately don't want to restrict myself that way either -- but my experience is in 20th c. a-g poetics, so i start from there and see where it leads
[14:27] mIEKAL claire when I read books I have 6 or 8 open at one time, I rarely read a book cover to cover.
Surd Same here.
billseye yeah, have you folks seen pictures of Ramelli's reading wheel?!
mIEKAL hypertext seems to be about the way we've always read...
Djuna Ah mIEKEL - I'm not the only one (thought I was too disorganized)
[14:28] mIEKAL that's a great photo bill
echo i wonder how many of us do that, and if it has changed since reading hypertext?
echo ahhh!
billseye i've always had a few going at once too -- now i'm too busing doing web stuff to have anything open (except my browser!) :)
echo it's just the way we have always read
jfk bill, you write: "The question for poetry has been: Does electronic hypertext offer a new methodology for writing, or simply a new medium for the practice of familiar methodologies? To consider language as motility (the potential to place or replace) revises the question: How do words behave in on and offline space, and how do we construct a methodology that comprehends practice in both domains? " Do you really want a methodology to comprehend?

a project of webartery.com