: BILL MARSH/ November 21th, 1999

14:30 - 15:00
[14:29] mIEKAL I'd be so bold as to say a 100 years ago most people read one book at a time & didn't start a new book until they finished the last.
echo yes
echo and people used to read out loud
Surd Look at old pictures of writer's desks with lots of books open...
mIEKAL joe yr message was cut off.
[14:30] mIEKAL hmmm
jfk sorry
mIEKAL jim you don't think the times have had an effect on people reading in a different way?
mIEKAL or muliple ways...
[14:31] Djuna I think it will take time for us who have long known only the printed word to truly be able to expliot the medium for all it's worth
Surd I think reading has changed considerably.
Surd But, yes, I agree
Surd that hypertext
echo yes (lots of books), but only after people began reading to themselves, silently in their minds
Surd embodies or assists
Surd in the way you and I read anyway.
Surd I think that the animism of the reading
billseye joe, in the essay i was suggesting that this might be necessary for a broader-based poetics, but only if that's the aim -- it's something i think poetry and poetics could use today -- so in that context, yes
Surd both in the animation of the word
[14:32] Surd (like now)
Djuna attention span for one thing - I see there's an article on this in Eastgate recently
Surd and the dynamic nature of the connection
Surd create process
Surd that sets the whole thing
Surd moving
Surd into hyper reality.
echo bill? your opinion on this?
[14:33] Surd It is no longer just about something
billseye do any of you think we're limited by having a grounding in print-based art? in having "grown up" on books, as it were?
Surd it is the thing.
echo where do you see it going from here?
mIEKAL naw
mIEKAL but then I've been into hypermedia for almost 15 years as well.
[14:34] billseye ie, picking up on the idea that we have to concentrate hard to see the screen as *not* a page?
Surd I think you're right
Djuna not at all - I just find I'm having to widen my spheres - always happy to do so! I think knowing one's history is essential to creation, to carry the torch as it were, the human continuum ...
Surd Bill
jfk i'm reading a lot of pressure in the faces of people in the room with me. they seem to be saying pay some attention to me. so i'm going to sign off now. it's been interesting in a web-like way. bill and jim and everyone, thanks for the show. adios
[14:35] Surd but we are helped by other people with their perspectives...
echo bye joe, thanks !
mIEKAL take care joe
billseye bye joe -- thanks for the chat
tompur bye joe
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Surd OK, Joe!
[14:36] Djuna bye Joe
Surd I think Bill has to go too.
Surd Bill?
billseye yeah, off to a poetry reading with real live people! -- but i hope to have something from it available on the site -- video/audio/still shots, texts...
[14:37] tompur Well, I've had fun looking at sunbrella . . . and I think I did get a better picture of what Bill's doing
mIEKAL likewise
tompur Thanks for doing this
echo yes, thank you so much , Bill!
Surd Well thanks, Bill, for sharing your work and plans!
Djuna okay - enjoy Bill, and thanks
Surd I look forward to working with you on the transcript!
billseye applause for jim andrews for making it happen -- and all of you for hanging out -- i had a blast and learned a lot
Surd And to Bill.
[14:38] tompur <Bravo! Bravo! Applause! Applause!>
billseye okay, see y'all on the discussion list -- about 20 messages i have to read!
Surd We have a strange beasty text to hypermediate the hypermediated with.
billseye yes, jim, contact me and let me know what i need to do
[14:39] Surd will do
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Surd Do you find your reading has changed, Miekal?
tompur Well, I have to go type my wife's homework
mIEKAL no I don't really think so--
Surd Thanks for joining us, Tom.
echo see ya tom, thanks for joining in
tompur I'll catch up with you guys later! It was fun!
[14:40] tompur bye
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echo bye!
Surd Good discussion about mp3.com
mIEKAL but I do see hypertext as trying to approximate instinctual reading habits.
Surd The Art of Memory is a blast, a revelation that way.
[14:41] mIEKAL sounds like an interesting book, I love carolyn's posts, I usually have to save them & go thru them twice.
Surd Don't you find, though,
Surd that you read the process
Surd in work now quite differently than before?
Djuna exactly Jim?
Surd I think, for instance,
[14:42] Surd that the debate about mediaboy.net
Surd was illustrative that way.
Djuna or, at least, that's the possibility/invitation of hypertext I believe
[14:43] Surd There's an energy
Surd in the animism
Surd that can have it's own
Surd uh
echo funny how an electronic medium should be close to nature in this way
Surd meaning
echo ironic
Surd or mean in different ways...
Djuna ie., that the process may become part of the final product - process as message (too)
echo art as the process
Surd Skip saw rage
[14:44] mIEKAL we could identify dynamic processes in reading a book as well.
Surd whereas I saw lively process.
mIEKAL 'Im not sure what yr getting at jim
Surd That's true.
Surd I will try to articulate this, Miekal
[14:45] Surd I'm not sure I can do it in process right now, though.
echo conceptual
echo contextual
echo :o)
echo and the bridge where they meet
mIEKAL beth, I've always wondered where yr located--
[14:46] echo why?
mIEKAL because yr one of the few people whose posts I read a lot that I don't know where you live...
mIEKAL space=space
Surd When I look at Web art I look to see what is said to me beyond the word, in the interstices and tones of new media...
[14:47] echo i spend winters in school
echo summer on the road
Surd in the motion and in the emerging language of new media...
Surd e motion
mIEKAL wouldn't this happen with a music cd or a video as well.
[14:48] Surd Also in the integration of media with text...
mIEKAL so we are maybe talking about something other than reading
mIEKAL do you read sound, read animation---
Djuna mmm, that's nice jim ...
Surd I think part of why Jodi is so popular
Surd is in the way they
[14:49] Surd generate and understand
Djuna surface seduction if you ask me
Surd the energy of that dynamism.
Surd But high energy in a certain way.
Surd To grasp that energy is important.
Surd To read it.
Djuna yes, but it doesn't go very deep.
[14:50] Surd It can, though.
echo yes.
echo it can
mIEKAL there's a question, does one read jodi or experience jodi?
echo one goes thru a process with jodi
echo a trip
Djuna I enjoy web work often for a multi faceted engagement it often affords me - levels of being respond -
[14:51] echo yes
echo your work has these wonderful
Djuna that's a matter of (personal) opinion I suppose
echo thoughtful layers
mIEKAL I particularly enjoy what provokes me yet I don't understand it, want to spend more time with it TO understand
Surd I don't mean to site Jodi as definitive, but an example of a new reading...
[14:52] mIEKAL as with most of these discussions, we would stall on definitions pretty quickly
Djuna do you not think that we sometimes read meaning into a given work (which isn't there) because we Need to?
echo i think we always read meaning as it means to us
[14:53] echo on a personal level
mIEKAL meaning is inevitable, intended meaning being conveyed is another story
Surd To use the whole screen and the whole medium in a capacious writing that does not dwell too much on poetry but on the phenomenology of the whole medium is what I try to concentrate on...
Surd But I am a writer.
Surd And love poetry also.
Djuna and so: back to the immemorial question of authorship ...
[14:54] echo i like the concept of asking the viewer, inviting them to draw their own conclusions
echo on one hand
Surd That is a general principle of all art, though.
[14:55] Surd To keep it open that way.
echo yes
[14:59] Surd Have you read The Art of Memory, Miekal?
mIEKAL no I haven't jim
Surd Lemme see...
Surd it's about the ancient
mIEKAL I'm reading Imagining Language by steve mccaffery
[15:00] Surd art of memory
Surd as practiced
Surd by the greeks and romans
Surd in memorizing speeches
Surd and also in memorizing
  Surd what is said to you
Surd and also in memorizing texts
Djuna well, after only 3 hours sleep I'm off to netherland folks ...
Surd and the methods that are described
  Surd are so much like constructing hypertexts
[15:01] mIEKAL bye claire, I should be going soon too--
Surd that it's startling.
Surd Yes, me too.
mIEKAL I could see that
  echo bye claire, thanks for joining
  Surd Yes, thanks Claire.
  Djuna farewell all, till next time ...
Surd I've ordered the McCaffery book.
[15:02] Surd Is it good?
  mIEKAL well I gotta go too -- jim I think its ok for these discussion to range the way they do..
mIEKAL yes, quintessential
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  Surd Cool.
  Surd Yes,
Surd I guess I'm wondering
Surd how good a read
  Surd they are
[15:03] Surd to those who read the transcripts
Surd but one can't be too
Surd worried about that, I guess.
  Surd After all, it is a live show.
Surd Not a canned show.
mIEKAL in its infancy
Surd Yes, as we all get experienced with these
  Surd I'm sure the shows will
Surd evolve.
[15:04] Surd Thank you, Miekal, as always.
mIEKAL oooookkkkk bye jim bye beth
  echo bye miekal
Surd See you!
  *** mIEKAL has quit IRC (QUIT: User exited.)
Session Close: Sun Nov 21 15:05:20 1999


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