13:00 - 13:30
    Links to Reiner Strasser
[13:00] <jley> tell please? I'm curious none the less
[13:00] <David> yes, a simple list would be fine
[13:00] <komninos> aside: it's great watching conversation happening as a visual experience (i don't chat very often)
[13:00] <cinader> how do you balance your web art activities with survival activities? Reiner. Are they related?
[13:01] <reiner> writers i like - Boris Vian, Exupery, R. Queneau
[13:01] <Deena> Survival activities. I like that :)
[13:01] <billseye> reiner, love your work, want to hang out but can't -- previous engagement -- bye all
[13:01] <cinader> sorry to ask such a practical question
[13:01] <jley> bye bill :)
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[13:01] <echo> its been inspirational, but i need to log off, reiner, hats off!.see ya all.....beth is outta here.
[13:01] <reiner> painters Klee, Hockney, Rivers ....... much more
[13:01] <anniea> I am asthonised by you mentioning klee reiner, representation seems important in your work
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[13:02] <stev> hallo
[13:02] <Deena> Cinader , I think it an important question. We have to integrate the art with our lives.
[13:02] <reiner> yes ---- web art - surv .....
[13:03] <reiner> it is hard to get i think
[13:03] <reiner> work + private sphere + web
[13:03] <reiner> the web can eat you very fast :)
[13:03] <David> annie, I'd have been more surprised if reiner had mentioned Mondrian
[13:04] <David> also an artist who compartmentalizes
[13:04] <cinader> all is one but who actually needs it? It's not so much eating fast but consuming everything!
[13:04] <Deena> There is just so much information, so many thngs to look at. How do you balance the "web life" with "writing" and "living"
[13:04] <jley> mmm 'time management seminars needed for artsy web types'??
[13:04] <Surd> haha
[13:05] <David> jeez, Jim, don't laugh
[13:05] <reiner> balance - hard questions here - i try to do
[13:05] <reiner> if i had a recipe i would tell it
[13:05] <Surd> Prior to the Web, I always thought about poetics, you know, relating life and art. Still do.
[13:06] <Deena> Jennifer, more than time management. Thought management. :)
[13:06] <jley> ah yes Deena ... right side left side brain utilization too
[13:06] <reiner> management is important but not the key
[13:06] <mandola> and I've got to fold the kid's clothes -- thanks reiner, everyone
[13:06] <reiner> i think
[13:06] <Surd> Welcome to the list, Michael.
[13:06] <reiner> ciao m.
[13:07] <reiner> what is more difficult for me is
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[13:07] <reiner> to be able to free myself from the web work inbetween
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[13:07] <komninos> after many emails and fixes welcome m
[13:08] <reiner> and vice versa
[13:08] <reiner> from work
[13:08] <jley> ie. ... art comes from life so one needs a life ??
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[13:08] <reiner> yes ... sometimes i think it would be better only to live
[13:08] <reiner> but i need to be creative too
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[13:09] <Surd> Discussion on the poetics list now about antiorp and his 'become the machine' message. There is an ineluctably Frankensteinish element to what we do.
[13:09] <cinader> or your left with a virtual life on a disk somewhere
[13:09] <Deena> Yes, I think so.
[13:09] *jley is seeing an emerging netizen debunking of the virtual ... it's intriguing
[13:10] <cinader> gotta woke up...thank you reiner
[13:10] <komninos> what do comments in red mean?
[13:10] <reiner> ciao ..... ws nice to ...
[13:10] <Surd> Any artist fully engaged in the medium they work in will take up, take in the media/um in startling ways...
[13:10] <Surd> but still the question of balance is appropriate.
[13:10] <David> but there are such a wide range of results: antiorp's vs reiner's, fr instance
[13:11] <Surd> Good point.
[13:11] <jley> speaking of real life ... it calls ... great to see you all ... Deena ... looking forward to face time ! whoo hoo
[13:11] <komninos> perhaps the medium is taking up the artists?
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[13:12] <David> how do you mean, komninos?
[13:12] <reiner> yes it is much more easy to paint :)
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[13:12] <Surd> Yes, it is different from the way that you take up painting or the pen... or the way it takes you up.
[13:12] <Surd> The whole notion of the machine
[13:12] <reiner> yes it maybe this 'virtual' state
[13:12] <Surd> but also collaboration such as this and other collaboration... communication.
[13:12] <reiner> you can fall in totally in your own work
[13:13] <komninos> well the medium is there and will be in the future, it is inevitable that we get involved
[13:13] <komninos> we make a big deal about it now but
[13:14] <reiner> therefore to find balance will be worthwhile
[13:14] <komninos> in the future it will be transparent
[13:14] <mIEKAL> what will be transparent, the interface?
[13:14] <reiner> i think it will be less transparent for the user
[13:14] <reiner> in the future
[13:15] <reiner> completely involved in 'cyberspace'
[13:15] <Deena> Or thoughts about the interface? Just as we don't see discussions about how the book works, perhaps we won't see discussins about how ht interfaces wortk?
[13:15] <komninos> now a cd-rom you pick up has cd-rom or interactive multimedia written on it a hundred times, a book doesn't have book written on it
[13:15] <reiner> media strategy
[13:15] <Surd> I feel that an important part of art is in examining the unexamined 'transparencies'.
[13:15] <Deena> especially now. Books all act alike, but each ht is very different in conception and execution
[13:16] <mIEKAL> everyone can pick up a book & read
[13:16] <Surd> But I think you are right, Komninos, that part of the process of media becoming part of ourselves involves a transparency coming into being.
[13:16] <mIEKAL> but even if you have a computer you might not have the right set up to view a hypertext.
[13:17] <komninos> in the future you will m
[13:17] <eric> same thing holds for *some* books, miekal
[13:17] <reiner> sorry have to leave for a moment will be back soon - the body :)
[13:17] <mIEKAL> I like to turn yr sentence around jim, & have ourselves become part of the media
[13:17] <Surd> Yes, that too.
[13:18] <David> right, works both ways, back and forth
[13:18] <mIEKAL> prosthesis
[13:18] <Surd> ya
[13:18] <komninos> i'm thinking of getting a projector and projecting my computer, tv, video recorder, nintendo64/games to it and having it on 24 hours of the day
[13:18] <Deena> also, the technology is changing every six months. we've had the book as it stands now for over 300 years.
[13:18] <Deena> why?
[13:19] <komninos> so the media is constantly there, new emails come up when they come in, i choose to involve myself in it when i choose
[13:19] <David> and we can still read the old books. Not so with much early computer work
[13:19] <mIEKAL> deena the tech seems to change everyday, it just takes us 6 months to catch up to each innovation
[13:19] <PbN> m - disagree
[13:20] <Surd> Well there's buttons to learn and then there's imaginative acclimatization.
[13:20] <David> explain, ted
[13:20] <eric> well, "we" have had access to the technology from day one. not so with books.
[13:20] <mIEKAL> can you imagine the hassles involved in a historical museum of computer art? ....all the different softwares & interfaces
[13:20] <PbN> much is made of hi-speed tech inovations, but really -- what is new?
[13:20] <PbN> new version?
[13:20] <PbN> same programmingh
[13:20] <mIEKAL> Im speaking about access..
[13:20] <Surd> Imaginative acclimatization is not so much about buttons to learn as other things.
[13:20] <mIEKAL> I cant access g2 real audio because I need a more powerful computer
[13:20] <Deena> A lot is new. HTML has different limits and access than SToryspace, or Hypercard.
[13:21] <Deena> Even Reiner's mouseovers are only possible on the web. Or in flash or in...
[13:21] <PbN> not true, d
[13:21] <Deena> Each software has unique possibilities for expression
[13:21] <Surd> Right, I'm not saying that these things aren't new.
[13:21] <PbN> mouseovers are possible off the web
[13:21] <mIEKAL> that would be a good children's story _reiner's mouseovers_
[13:21] <Surd> For me right now, I'm trying to do interactive sound/image/text
[13:22] <komninos> m you will eventually reprioritize your needs to increase the priority of staying up to speed with the web
[13:22] <Surd> That's the new part.
[13:22] <Deena> But each software supports something different
[13:22] <mIEKAL> k, Id have to get a real job
[13:22] <mIEKAL> you cant live on a couple thousand a year & keep up to new tech.
[13:22] <Deena> k, no one can keep up with the new tech.
[13:22] <komninos> yea but i bet you've even considered that?
[13:23] <mIEKAL> considered what?
[13:23] <Surd> Yes, you're right, it may not be easy to separate the imaginative acclimatization from the buttons.
[13:23] <komninos> getting a "real job"
[13:23] <Deena> s--or the particular interface. Web, sspace, hypercard, guide, etc.
[13:23] <mIEKAL> naw, never.
[13:23] <Surd> But there is a difference...
[13:23] <komninos> good, you are too valuable as a working artist
[13:24] <David> I find that a lot of my "imaginative acclimation" takes place away from the computer
[13:24] <mIEKAL> I create my wealth in other ways, I just have to accept its limitations.
[13:24] <Surd> Howso, David?
[13:24] <Deena> There is another twist in the "survival" bit-now we have to consider technology, keeping up with it, as well as eating and living
[13:24] <anniea> pbn, mouseovers outside the web is.......???
[13:25] <David> S, I'm still thinking about the work, or frustrations with the work (or the programming)
[13:25] <mIEKAL> I agree David, lately mine has been coming from reading interviews with Borges.
[13:25] <PbN> possible in offline browser, a
[13:25] <David> but away from the keyboard, involved in other things or
[13:25] <David> just letting my mind wander.
[13:25] <David> Funny how problems that seemed intractable
[13:25] <David> often clear themselves up in the shower
[13:26] <komninos> hey reinner you there?
[13:26] <anniea> reiner is exercising balance
[13:26] <komninos> this is your party after all
[13:26] <reiner> yes i am back
[13:26] <Surd> Let's hope it's not too precarious.
[13:26] <David> annie, I took Ted to mean offline. Still on the computer, but
[13:26] <mIEKAL> Im also not able to write poetry at the computer...always on paper with a pencil
[13:26] <reiner> felling better now
[13:26] <David> not necessarily on the web
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[13:27] <PbN> d, yes.
[13:27] <anniea> thnks
[13:27] <komninos> i doodle on paper these days, poems come as three d ideas
[13:27] <PbN> 99.9% of the WEB could run off the Web
[13:27] <reiner> that is right
[13:27] <Surd> This couldn't.
[13:27] <David> but many of the collaborations would not happen
[13:27] <PbN> S, true
[13:28] <Surd> Right, it's the connective tissue.
[13:28] <mIEKAL> ted, Im not sure what yr getting at <>
[13:28] <komninos> no the things that will endure will only be able to happen on the web
[13:28] <PbN> Ask Re...
[13:28] <Deena> I doodle on photoshop, it seems to be much easier. How do you create your works, Reiner? On or off line?
[13:29] <Surd> Even if much work could run off the web, the communicative, public frame may be important to it.
[13:29] <reiner> offline --- making photos --- collecting sounds ---- ideas --- sketches
[13:29] <reiner> than photoshop --- teach text ---- what else ....
[13:30] <reiner> i think ted is right
[13:30] <reiner> the most pieces can be presented offline
[13:30] <reiner> but i think that does not matter
[13:30] <PbN> agreed
[13:30] <reiner> the most works 'only' on the web
[13:30] <Surd> I don't agree Komninos, in a literal sense. The conceptual connection with the Web is important too.

Jan 16, 2000
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