11:45 - 12:15
Komninos's Cyberpoetry
Session Start: Sun Feb 06 11:26:54 2000
***Now talking in #defib
***ChanServ changes topic to 'Komninos Konstantinos Zervos, Sun. Feb 6, noon PST (20:00 GMT)'
[11:45] <komninos> what are the criteria for digital poetry?
[11:45] <dleshem> That's what we are all here to ask you
[11:45] <Hiccup> digits I guess, gotta dig it, too
[11:45] <dleshem> basically, anything with digits
[11:47] <komninos> well i guess i call it poetry that can't be published in print media, that needs a computer , or the internet, to experience it
[11:48] <dleshem> Komninos, do you mean then that it in some way relies on code?
[11:49] <komninos> i suppose ultimately it does but as a poet i can use a software program and not have to know code or write code myself, just use the software as a literary device.
[11:50] <Hiccup> does the device become foregrounded in the work?
[11:50] <komninos> no it should be transparent really
[11:50] <dleshem> Or, does the device have to be foregrounded ""
[11:50] <Surd> ehehe
[11:51] <Surd> Why should it be transparent, Komninos?
[11:51] <komninos> when i see a good piece on the internet, i am engaged by the content and that pulls me into the work
[11:51] <dleshem> Even if it is transparent, its effect (e.g. moving text) is part of the poem
[11:52] <komninos> yeah but read a poem in print and you don't highlight the metaphor the simile the alliteration the punctuation, the assonance the metre the rhyme, they become transparent
[11:53] <dleshem> that's an interesting point.
[11:53] <komninos> the poems content is what engages me
[11:53] <Surd> but read some, say, language po and all that stuff is sometimes the subject
[11:53] <dleshem> Since this is all news to me (digital poetry), I still get caught up on the device.
[11:53] <komninos> it should be the same in cyberspace
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[11:54] <komninos> me too sometimes, but the test is do i want to revisit a piece i've seen?
[11:54] <Surd> Yes, just into it.
[11:55] <Hiccup> what brings you back to a piece?
[11:56] <Surd> Did you see Ted's flyform piece, Komninos? What did you think of it?
[11:56] <Surd> The reason I ask
[11:56] <Surd> is because flyforms really involves the under the hood stuff in its play on 'form'.
[11:57] <komninos> well a piece like the visual thesaurus is like a free fall through a dictionary for me and a different journey each time
[11:57] <dleshem> Komninos, I'm reading a John Cayley article for Loss's class and I wonder how you feel about the computer being a part of "the media"
[11:57] <komninos> that's www.thinkmap.com if you haven't seen it
[11:57] <Hiccup> what is a visual thesaurus?
[11:58] <dleshem> Since it is also the medium through which you do your art, do you feel like it is overly complicit in mass conservative culture?
[11:58] <komninos> sure its a part of the media, or should we say the media is a part of the computer now.
[11:58] <komninos> time/warner buyout by aol recently is indicative of this
[11:59] <Hiccup> this buyout is really just an access issue isn't it?
[11:59] <Hiccup> or will it change the kinds of software that get made?
[11:59] <komninos> it is no accident that the top websites are owned by media companies, like cnn, disnet, etc
[12:00] <Loss> The attempt there is to lead to one inevitable end ...
[12:00] <Loss> Just the way it is with television, radio, periodicals, newspapers, ...
[12:00] <Loss> to restrict the possibilities.
[12:01] <Loss> Take for example the fact that from 100 tv channels
[12:01] <komninos> what it means is that we are very close to internet tv, movies on demand, global distribution networks,
[12:01] <dleshem> And so what is poetry's role in all this?
[12:01] <dleshem> Does poetry once again (for the first time in a while) have a crucial duty to perform?
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[12:02] <komninos> poetry is better placed on the web than it was with tv i reckon
[12:02] <Hiccup> can we still publish and have anyone see our work with this new condition?
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[12:02] <Surd> ehe
[12:02] <Loss> Altho, Komninos, poetry did have a role in radio.
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[12:03] <komninos> yes loss but how much was actually put to air compared to sports or music?
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[12:03] <komninos> hello all that joined recently
[12:03] <Surd> Komninos, I think we might agree that poets and artists have an interesting role in this medium in that artists are the ones who can make the works here that are interesting.
[12:03] <Loss> not much it's true. however we occupy a small portion of the Web bandwidth too
[12:04] <Hiccup> i think the web is an excellent forum for poets
[12:04] <dleshem> but is it an excellent forum for poetry?
[12:04] <komninos> sure artists and writers will always be the research and development of the entertainment and communication industries
[12:04] <Loss> And there are community access poetry programs for tv.
[12:05] <Surd> If you show people how it can really go, they are better tuned to know the difference.
[12:05] <komninos> poetry is very versatile it adapts to all environments
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[12:06] <Hiccup> i'm still trying to understand what makes flash or director text poetic
[12:06] <komninos> or should i say it has many representations in all sorts of media
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[12:07] <aya> why would flash/director text not be poetic?
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[12:07] <Surd> Yes, I agree it is versatile. Currently I am delighted to see the way that poetry is Orphic in its being rent asunder, torn limb from limb and then coming back otherwise in many media and many arts... and coding... and science.
[12:07] <komninos> the actual movement of the words, their look, their shape, colour, depth, actually add layers of meaning or interpretation
[12:08] <komninos> they are words not in sentences, yet by their actions tell you what they are doing
[12:08] <Hiccup> is it (words in motion) --what Komninos said--
[12:08] <komninos> it's words in new spaces
[12:09] <Loss> and words with rhythm
[12:09] <komninos> and we are playing with them to see what will happen
[12:09] <komninos> sure loss its an aural space too
[12:09] <mIEKAL> what's it
[12:10] <dleshem> Komninos, did i understand that you don't program text by yourself but use some software?
[12:10] <dleshem> if so, what do you use?
[12:10] <komninos> yes dleshem
[12:10] <komninos> it it it what is it? good question
[12:11] <komninos> cyberspace, is it a space at all?
[12:11] <mikelleher> I like this question, K. I am always tempted to say no, not space -- time, or movement
[12:11] <mIEKAL> it is a way to remember
[12:11] <aya> cyberspace is a space....as it is not merely a medium through which communication occurs
[12:12] <komninos> is it a collective intelligence as pierre levy proposes?
[12:12] <aya> but IN which it occurs
[12:12] <Hiccup> but it moves too fast for me
[12:12] <komninos> why hiccup you are driving?
[12:12] <aya> K - this concerns me as well...where is the role of the individual?
[12:12] <mIEKAL> one can only know it holographically, experiencing quite miniscule bits...
[12:13] <mIEKAL> what are perhaps a representation of something much larger.
[12:13] <Hiccup> no, not driving, just overwhelmed
[12:13] <Surd> Just like this chat... only knowing parts of it until later.
[12:13] <komninos> here and now, ground zero, time zero talking interacting, communicating with other individuals
[12:13] <elizabeth> the individual must acknowledge it only exists relationally, on the net?
[12:13] <Hiccup> good point, K.
[12:14] <aya> not only on the net
[12:14] <elizabeth> But especially that sensation there, aya?
[12:14] <Surd> What do you mean 'only', Elizabeth?
[12:15] <Loss> i agree. the relations occur in various media. it's just that the parts are packaged as if they were autonomous.
[12:15] <komninos> i think the role of the individual is to keep the bastards honest, as well.

Feb 6/2000
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