12:17 - 12:45
[12:17] <Jim> Yes, whatever else poetry is, a deep engagement with language would seem to be a, uh, essential part of it... though that word essential is problematic.
[12:17] <LossGlazier> not just produce a slick and soothing corporate web page, for example
[12:17] <LossGlazier> but play with the kinks and ripples in the medium.
[12:17] <mez> sure.
[12:17] <PbN> kink and ripple -- cools
[12:18] <LossGlazier> Well the sort of irony was
[12:18] <mez> is there a way to transform such basic poetry x-pectations 2 n-clude more mediamatic l-ements do u think? lezz m-phasis on the textual componentz?
[12:18] <LossGlazier> that I created the Electronic Poetry Center before there was a huge base of digital practice.
[12:19] <Jim> So concentration on language and the phenomenology of the particular media/um is central to innovative poetry/poetics?
[12:19] <LossGlazier> With the goal of establishing a foothold, making those links with innovative poets, situating the resource in a university ...
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[12:20] <carolyn> wow. i'm in.
[12:20] <mez> heya carolyn:)
[12:20] <LossGlazier> I don't think we can say concentration on language
[12:21] <PbN> Loss, inf not 'language' how about 'code' -- "code poetry" ?
[12:21] <LossGlazier> because "language" raises a sore point
[12:21] <Jim> How so?
[12:21] <LossGlazier> language would be ok but the problem is that we tend to associate that with text
[12:21] <LossGlazier> the visual people go hey would about the visual
[12:22] <LossGlazier> because we need to include in the term "language" both visual and textual
[12:22] <Jim> Isn't that preferable, though, to saying
[12:22] <LossGlazier> yes "code" is also valuable
[12:22] <Jim> that innovative poetry concentrates on the word and the phenomenology of the media/um?
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[12:23] <Jim> Preferable in that it breaks down the barriers between the word and other language?
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[12:23] <PbN> code po... is a new term I've heard just recently -- seems to include more than viz, lang... is this your sense?
[12:23] <Jim> Hi there Chris Funkhouser.
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[12:24] <cfunk> good afternoon, all
[12:25] <carolyn> on one of the lists i subscribe to, we've been talking a lot about 'fractal poetry'. we are using it as a way of describing the multidimensional permutations that happen in language, code, real time, space, and all. Does this fit your model, loss?
[12:25] <mez> howe about facet poetry?
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[12:25] <LossGlazier> Carolyn, that's a helpful idea.
[12:25] <PbN> Queen Cleo!
[12:26] <Cleo> hello friends --
[12:26] <mez> heya cleo;)
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[12:26] *carolyn wonders if heartache can ever leave...
[12:26] <Cleo> lol!
[12:26] <Jim> ...has left the building...
[12:27] <tomb> loss, when is your book coming out?
[12:27] <LossGlazier> These terms are all very useful.
[12:27] <mez> eclect[ronic]ic poetry?
[12:27] <LossGlazier> Well, it takes them a long time.
[12:27] *carolyn laughs
[12:28] <mez> :)
[12:28] <Jim> But we were talking about EPC and what you see EPC doing...
[12:28] <LossGlazier> It's called "Digital Poetics
[12:28] <LossGlazier> out in about a year, they promise.
[12:28] <LossGlazier> Yes Jim.
[12:28] <LossGlazier> This ties into my book too.
[12:29] <LossGlazier> The connection between innovative language practice and media poetries.
[12:29] <LossGlazier> I think in terms of the EPC
[12:29] <LossGlazier> I do like to see these ties manifest
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[12:29] <LossGlazier> I mean get digital media artists to read innovative poetries
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[12:29] <LossGlazier> and get innovative poets to acknowledge that some of these works
[12:30] <LossGlazier> are just as much in the tradition of Stein or Retallack or Howe
[12:30] <LossGlazier> that maybe one aspect of their/others investigations
[12:30] <tomb> i would like to see more innovative poetry pieces on the net
[12:30] <LossGlazier> can only lead to the electronic
[12:31] <Jim> Right. So you see EPC as a hub for innovative poetics regardless of media?
[12:31] <tomb> the electronic seems more receptive than print?
[12:31] <mez> so yr makin a complete distinction b-tween innovative poets [print based] N dig media artistz? tryin 2 co-join em back 2gether?
[12:31] <Cleo> do you mean get the hypermedia/um to be an integral part of the work of traditional text poets -
[12:32] <LossGlazier> I think there is a "poetics" to innovative practice
[12:32] <LossGlazier> that transcends medium.
[12:32] *carolyn applauds
[12:32] <tomb> yes yes
[12:32] <Jim> What are some of the characteristics of such a poetics?
[12:33] <tomb> does it have to use more than one mode?
[12:33] <LossGlazier> Ah
[12:33] <Jim> ehehe
[12:33] <LossGlazier> I look at it in terms of edges
[12:34] <LossGlazier> In other words
[12:34] <LossGlazier> innovative practice let's call it ip in print poetry looks at the edges of poetic practice
[12:34] <carolyn> and these edges are permeable?
[12:34] <LossGlazier> what is on the fringe, the edges of how lang works
[12:35] <LossGlazier> the same with electronic
[12:35] <tomb> i like the edges!
[12:35] <LossGlazier> (yes i LOVE the idea that they are permeable! because aren't we all? i was just caught on in the rain and i can tell you that i'm not air tight)
[12:35] <mez> :)
[12:35] <PbN> edges and fields
[12:35] <LossGlazier> yes PbN
[12:36] <LossGlazier> in terms of the electronic
[12:36] <LossGlazier> there are a lot of edges
[12:36] <LossGlazier> like
[12:36] <Jim> Yes, unlimited possibilities does not provide an edge... so to head for the edges and push and navigate along them...
[12:36] <LossGlazier> what is the problematic of being here
[12:36] <tomb> any relation to the 'field project'?
[12:36] *mez starts to n-flect yr edges, n-fuse yr gloss with gleaned wurd glitter and poetic pulp
[12:36] <PbN> :)
[12:37] <LossGlazier> yes i think so tom
[12:37] <LossGlazier> also a relation to the "features" we've been doing at the EPC
[12:37] <LossGlazier> Feb., the Valentine Files and April, Poems for April
[12:37] *PbN misses David today
[12:38] *mez se.quinz and kode kingz
[12:39] <LossGlazier> PbN, he wrote me and said he was going to miss being here
[12:39] <Jim> Yes, I know you and David have taken EPC deeper into the digital media realm, and am grateful for that, Loss. EPC is a great bridge into the innovative regardless of whether we're talking print or e or whatever.
[12:40] <PbN> ditto
[12:40] <carolyn> there aren't enough of these bridges. places like epc and the electronic book review are great starting points though.
[12:40] <LossGlazier> The great thing about the base we have is that so many people get exposed to the work
[12:40] <carolyn> what's the reader/surfership?
[12:41] <Jim> Then there's ubu and light and dust, but those are more archival or presenting previous work to the digital realm.
[12:41] <LossGlazier> Carolyn, one thing that I would like to suggest here is that we keep lines of communication open,
[12:41] <LossGlazier> think about special projects, ways to use the epc as a kind of portal,
[12:41] <LossGlazier> to the benefit of all.
[12:41] <carolyn> permute and percolate?
[12:41] <tomb> ubu is down
[12:41] <Jim> down for good i think.
[12:41] <LossGlazier> There's a classic, heart-breaking example.
[12:41] <LossGlazier> It is down forever.
[12:41] <cfunk> yes, ubu lost 8000 files...
[12:42] <mez> howe did the loss happen? isp traumaz?
[12:42] <Cleo> indeed! maybe you should have a zine like - thing inside with a loose theme - like 'David's april poems, that runs every couple of months for people to respond to. with a forum that might bring artists and poets together there
[12:42] <LossGlazier> That is why I encourage the archiving of files at the EPC.
[12:42] <cfunk> Loss, how hard is it for you to manage the EPC at this point, time-wise?
[12:42] <LossGlazier> yes mez
[12:43] <LossGlazier> i know university's have their ideological problems too
[12:43] <LossGlazier> but basing our work in for-profit servers makes me nervous
[12:43] <LossGlazier> (please correct the transcript to "universities")
[12:43] <cfunk> poets have their ideological (and social) problems, too...
[12:44] <Cleo> understandable -
[12:44] <Cleo> if we all had our own servers ...
[12:44] <Cleo> lol cfunk!
[12:44] <LossGlazier> cleo, i'm sorry but what is your name? i'm interested in continuing the idea of alternate month or so featured projects
[12:44] <LossGlazier> you can believe the response we've gotten
[12:44] <Cleo> i'm claire dinsmore
[12:45] <LossGlazier> thanks
[12:45] <LossGlazier> it's so dusky in here it's hard to see everyone's faces!
[12:45] <PbN> that's Queen Claire to us common types,,,
[12:45] <mez> :)
[12:45] <tomb> loss, wasn't mike doing something like a periodic work?
[12:45] <LossGlazier> Chris, it's nearly impossible.
[12:45] <carolyn> leader of the empire and cauldron and net
[12:45] <Cleo> i'm exceedingly intrigued but have been too busy to participate lately
[12:45] <Cleo> *blush

April 2, 2000
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