12:45 - 13:15
[12:45] <cfunk> I bet..
[12:46] <LossGlazier> Tom, yes, ideally, phases of Mike's work could be featured too
[12:47] *carolyn wonders mike who?
[12:47] <LossGlazier> Mike Kelleher
[12:47] <Cleo> i like the idea of working with other's enmeshed in a text genre - I dream of working with sheila murphy or peter ganick
[12:47] <Jim> Well I think that the concept of the hub for the innovative, and as an active thing, rather than just an archive, has shown itself extremely dynamic nowhere more than EPC.
[12:47] <LossGlazier> editor of "The Field" project
[12:48] <carolyn> sorry, but i've got to fly. wonderful to see the work that you are doing, loss.
[12:49] <tomb> loss, url for 'the field"?
[12:49] <Jim> Fly high, Caroln.
[12:49] <PbN> thanks, Carolyn -- best!
[12:49] <carolyn> talk to you all anon.
[12:49] <Cleo> good bye my dear -
[12:49] <carolyn> bye.
[12:49] <LossGlazier> thanks
[12:49] ***carolyn has quit IRC (Quit: bye)
[12:49] <LossGlazier> as to the role of the epc, i'd certainly encourage folks to think about
[12:50] <LossGlazier> such special projects
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[12:50] <LossGlazier> working with David has been very fruitful
[12:50] <LossGlazier> i'm so crushed with work that extra energy like that
[12:51] <LossGlazier> makes magic
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[12:51] <tomb> i must go, too, by all
[12:51] <Cleo> mmm indeed!
[12:51] <Jim> see you Tom.
[12:51] <Cleo> bye tomb
[12:51] <LossGlazier> by tom
[12:51] <PbN> Tom, good to c u...
[12:51] <LossGlazier> i mean bye tom
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[12:51] <LossGlazier> what do folks think about what plug ins mean to our work
[12:52] <PbN> hate em
[12:52] <LossGlazier> i mean, is it troubling to anyone say
[12:52] <PbN> yes
[12:52] <LossGlazier> to work purely in flash
[12:52] <PbN> ack!
[12:52] <LossGlazier> not knowing if it will some day just disappear?
[12:52] <PbN> uh huh
[12:52] <Cleo> when i get blanks that ask me to get a plug-in no one's ever heard of, then find i have to pay for it .
[12:52] <Jim> Well, it will all disappear, but will it simultaneously transform, that's the question to me.
[12:53] <Cleo> but standards are fine [like flash, shockwave, RealAudio/video
[12:53] <LossGlazier> Yes, Jim. There are factors for survival though.
[12:53] <Jim> True
[12:53] <LossGlazier> For example, no matter how much things change one would assume there will always be a way to view old gif files
[12:54] <Jim> Maybe.
[12:54] <LossGlazier> or old Word files
[12:54] <PbN> GIFs are proprietary
[12:54] <mez> doezn't thizz s-sue [ of using potentially obsolete technolgee] get 2 the core of net.wurked artwork? I mean, shod we, as artistz, have these con.cerns prominent when creating, or is this a type of concussive [but sometimez necessary] censorship?
[12:54] <Cleo> maybe trying to view will someday be like trying to find a needle for your 'old' turntable!
[12:55] <PbN> yes
[12:55] <Jim> For myself, I pick the tools I need to do the type of work I imagine and try to consider all the rest but have to go with what I need...
[12:55] <PbN> who here regularly views Targa files?
[12:55] <mez> not me
[12:55] <LossGlazier> Does that mean that a lifetime's work could simply be unviewable
[12:55] <Cleo> i don't even know what they are [except by name]
[12:56] <cfunk> yes, perhaps...
[12:56] <Jim> Joseph Kosuth has speculated that if anything remains of his work, it will not be the objects themselves but the philosophy and approach...
[12:56] <PbN> Targa, proprietary, too, I think, 24-bit image format, popular a while back
[12:57] <Jim> ... the poetics...
[12:57] <Cleo> i think the larger comps., such as macromedia, will make backwards compatible players [ i hope!
[12:57] <PbN> No
[12:57] <mez> i wunder if some ppl subconsciouslee wurk with the ideer of possible plugin-challenged wurk? i tend nott to create anything in flash that couldn't b replicated in .gifz, 4 n-stance....
[12:57] <LossGlazier> the problem is that if you see information from their viewpoint
[12:57] <PbN> I cannot get the latest Flash from them for Win v.3.11
[12:57] <LossGlazier> old information is normally useless
[12:57] <Jim> Yes, that's an important point, Loss.
[12:58] <Cleo> really pbn? that's bad!
[12:58] <PbN> I think this whole q is part of what *makes* new med *new* ???
[12:58] <Jim> The 'industry' does not care to support the past but to be 'positioned' for the present and the future.
[12:58] <Cleo> it moves so damned rapidly!
[12:59] <cfunk> people will have to establish a trust which pays for someone to upgrade their hardware, software, files, memory etc
[12:59] <Cleo> 'new' gets old so fast!
[12:59] <LossGlazier> right chris
[12:59] <cfunk> so they don't completely vanish
[12:59] <LossGlazier> i sure would like to develop the epc to such an extend
[12:59] <Cleo> but that won't account for work which utilizes older technologies
[12:59] <LossGlazier> that it could keep track of given formats
[13:00] <cfunk> hard copy, or video copy might come in handy too
[13:00] <PbN> ah, but not all new med can exist offline
[13:00] <cfunk> some sort of representation
[13:00] <mez> rhizome artbase has a proviso built in that allowz em to s-sentially change/update wurk listed, so as to nott loose high-tekk net.wurk......
[13:00] <Cleo> maybe there will be some standards when we've calmed down a bit ...?
[13:01] <cfunk> true, pbn, but what else can you think of besides total erasure
[13:01] <PbN> still calming up?
[13:01] <Cleo> lol!
[13:01] <cfunk> standards? set by govt.? would these be useful?
[13:01] <PbN> Chris, I can't -- that's Loss' job :)
[13:01] <Jim> There is no calming down in a market predicated on continual growth and change.
[13:02] <LossGlazier> it puts artists in a curiously fragile position
[13:02] <LossGlazier> i think it's good to acknowledge that
[13:02] <Cleo> i imagine you're right - but what about video standards I mean - the tools used to create work change, but the viewing apparatus stays the same
[13:03] <cfunk> haven't artists always been in c.f. position, whatever the tech?
[13:03] <LossGlazier> and keep in minds some way to survive through all this
[13:03] ***bluechick has joined #defib
[13:03] <Cleo> apolgies for my horrid typing/Os
[13:03] <PbN> bluechick -- hi!
[13:03] ***grey-wolf has joined #defib
[13:03] <grey-wolf> hi
[13:03] <mez> i havta go all, trace chat is ca[u]l.ling:)
[13:03] <PbN> things are getting colorful...
[13:03] <bluechick> hi pbn
[13:03] <Jim> Thanks, Mez, see you.
[13:03] <LossGlazier> Glad you could make it mez
[13:04] <Cleo> what's there mez?
[13:04] <PbN> hi grey-wolf
[13:04] <Cleo> bye/hi
[13:04] <grey-wolf> whats this chat about?
[13:04] <bluechick> what's u p pp;
[13:04] <mez> great thingz loss, keep it up...and to all, later:)
[13:04] <bluechick> ppl
[13:04] <PbN> poetry
[13:04] <mez> trace has a general chat on, thought i'd be supportive:)
[13:04] <grey-wolf> oh
[13:04] <bluechick> i love poetry
[13:04] <LossGlazier> Another question I had was about tools
[13:04] <cfunk> go trAce!
[13:04] <bluechick> that's actually my next unit
[13:04] <Jim> Tell me about your book, if you'd like, Loss.
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[13:04] <LossGlazier> are there extraordinary tools for poets out there?
[13:04] <PbN> blue, welcome!
[13:04] ***randy has left #defib
[13:04] <grey-wolf> wanna hear a poem?
[13:05] <Jim> no
[13:05] <bluechick> thanks PBN
[13:05] <bluechick> yes
[13:05] <grey-wolf> ok
[13:05] <bluechick> lol
[13:05] <cfunk> go ahead
[13:05] <Cleo> this is a specific chat
[13:05] <grey-wolf> for Love...believe in fate, wat's meant for you, and it will come.Things that belong to you will ultimately come to you. What goes round will come round. Love will come
[13:06] <bluechick> nice
[13:06] <grey-wolf> i have alot more....
[13:06] ***Sierra has joined #defib
[13:06] <bluechick> give us more
[13:06] ***Sierra has left #defib
[13:06] <cfunk> i've heard that one before
[13:06] <grey-wolf> ok
[13:06] <bluechick> hey sierra
[13:06] <bluechick> oh
[13:06] <LossGlazier> grey-wolf, why don't you listen for a while?
[13:06] <PbN> ditto
[13:06] <grey-wolf> ok
[13:06] <Jim> Listen or leave.
[13:06] <grey-wolf> ok
[13:06] <Cleo> [was there not just a thread concerning this issue?
[13:06] <bluechick> i think so cleo
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[13:07] <LossGlazier> are there extraordinary tools for poets out there?
[13:07] <Cleo> that's why we should use the trace room Deena offered i think
[13:07] <Jim> No problem, I have op status and the boot here.
[13:07] <Cleo> not sure what you mean loss
[13:08] <LossGlazier> i've been trying to get the univ to set up something for the epc
[13:08] <Cleo> lol!
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[13:08] <LossGlazier> i just wondered what tools people are using and if there are tools folks would say are particularly good for poets to do digital work
[13:09] <LossGlazier> (it's amazing how hard it is for people to listen. if they can't be the only voice they leave.)
[13:09] <cfunk> html been berry berry good to me
[13:10] <Cleo> [yet another 'me' generation ...]
[13:10] <LossGlazier> if not we can talk about my book. what do you think jim? is our time almost up?
[13:10] <PbN> yes, Chris -- you do wonderful ASCII/html work
[13:10] <cfunk> talk about the book
[13:10] <Cleo> i know nothing of the book - what's it about?
[13:10] <Jim> Well the time is whenever we choose to conclude, Loss.
[13:10] <cfunk> pbn: who you
[13:10] <PbN> ted warnell
[13:11] <cfunk> ah, hi ted
[13:11] <LossGlazier> Well, I think it's amazing that a university press would pick it up.
[13:11] <Jim> I'm very interested to hear about your book, Loss.
[13:11] <Cleo> poem by nari
[13:11] <LossGlazier> It argues the continuity between innovative practice from print practice
[13:11] <LossGlazier> Let's say, it argues that by looking at innovative print practice
[13:12] <Jim> What writers do you take up?
[13:12] <LossGlazier> one can gain a particular perspective on the digital
[13:12] <Cleo> you mean practice in the new media/net?
[13:12] <LossGlazier> yes new media/net
[13:13] <LossGlazier> there's a good deal of reference to innovative poets of the second half of the 20th century
[13:13] <Jim> Such as?
[13:13] <LossGlazier> as well as mac low, oulipo (to some extent), emmett williams
[13:13] <LossGlazier> looks also at concrete poets
[13:13] <cfunk> what do you say about hypertext/cyberpoetry
[13:13] <LossGlazier> stein, william carlos williams
[13:13] <Cleo> i think the perspective on this issue depends a lot on the generation viewing/creating the work - language seems to be particular to age
[13:14] *PbN cranks up some Neil Young and settles in to the unfolding defib...
[13:14] <LossGlazier> not to mention black mountain, language, etc.
[13:14] <LossGlazier> one thing i attempt to do, chris,
[13:14] <LossGlazier> is to survey what's been going on the last number of years
[13:14] <LossGlazier> for example the Little Magazine CDs
[13:15] <LossGlazier> all this extraordinary work
[13:15] <LossGlazier> and i try to make a kind of informal catalog, or record of it,
[13:15] <LossGlazier> or survey.
[13:15] <Cleo> i wonder what some of those good old modernists would do with the new tools/language?

April 2, 2000
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