13:15 - 13:45
[13:15] <LossGlazier> I think it's good from a historical point of view but also
[13:15] <LossGlazier> if you consider this activity all together it means
[13:15] <LossGlazier> that there's really a body of interesting stuff happening.
[13:16] <Cleo> we are carrying on a 'tradition' today yes?
[13:16] <LossGlazier> It's good to get the word out. The last few conferences I've been to, for example,
[13:17] <LossGlazier> taking academics. They know they should be interested and they are
[13:17] <LossGlazier> but they don't know what's out there.
[13:17] <LossGlazier> or here
[13:17] <PbN> maybe a tradition of creating new traditions, Claire?
[13:17] <Cleo> exactly!
[13:17] <LossGlazier> It's the same with the EPC features, the idea of making this stuff available.
[13:18] <Jim> Have you read Memory Trade--a prehistory of cyberspace, by Darren Tofts, Loss?
[13:18] <Jim> He also argues the continuity from pre-web to the web.
[13:19] <Jim> He's an aussie academic, chair of a communications dept. there.
[13:20] <LossGlazier> Sound interesting, Jim.
[13:20] <PbN> You have done a remarkable job with EPC. Loss
[13:20] <PbN> A tremendous resource
[13:20] <PbN> thank you!
[13:20] <cfunk> Doesn't Bolter discuss this?
[13:20] <Cleo> breathing life into the word 'tradition' with its staid connotations
[13:20] <Jim> No doubt.
[13:20] <LossGlazier> Thanks PbN.
[13:21] <Jim> The more general argument is that rather than determining the zeit, technology follows the zeit.
[13:21] <PbN> I must fly, too, but thank you all today and Loss, thank you for the insight... all best...
[13:21] <LossGlazier> Bye PbN!
[13:21] <Jim> Thanks, Ted.
[13:21] <Cleo> yes loss, this is such an amazing resource and huge undertaking [with success!] - I bow to you.
[13:21] <PbN> toodles!
[13:21] ***PbN has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[13:21] <LossGlazier> Thanks much.
[13:22] <Cleo> especially because it bridges such a gap between traditions/means -
[13:22] <Cleo> it erases their borders
[13:22] <Jim> So that Brian Lennon and some others could write about web technology as posing literalizations of what previously was conceptual.
[13:23] <cfunk> or static
[13:23] <LossGlazier> That might be a little dangerous, I'd say.
[13:23] <Jim> How so?
[13:23] <LossGlazier> I always get nervous when a new technology is supposed to realize earlier theory.
[13:24] <Jim> Yes, if it does not open to the new but insists on framing it all as a reiteration.
[13:24] <LossGlazier> Because it has its own issues and to think that oh this is what Ezra Pound meant might mean you're not looking at it with all the questions you should.
[13:24] <LossGlazier> It's a possibility anyway.
[13:25] <Jim> Definitely.
[13:25] <Jim> But even if technology follows rather than determines the zeit
[13:25] <Jim> the extensions of ourselves
[13:25] <Jim> and of humanity
[13:25] <Jim> that technologies represent
[13:25] <Jim> are crucial in the formulation
[13:26] <Jim> of the next round.
[13:26] <LossGlazier> what do you mean by "zeit" here?
[13:26] <Cleo> a tendency i have definitely noted with the web loss, to disparage and discredit while appropriating and utilizing the old
[13:26] <Jim> For instance, we can consider the pomo ideals of decentralization
[13:27] <Jim> of smaller political and other social units
[13:27] <Jim> 'empowering' where the decisions need to be made, by those who have the info to make them.
[13:29] <LossGlazier> yes that's interesting
[13:29] <cfunk> (pardon the interruption)--baby's waking i must go--
[13:29] <LossGlazier> chris glad you could make it
[13:29] <cfunk> sword cabbage nickel lettuce juice to you all
[13:29] <Cleo> bye cf
[13:29] <cfunk> l8r
[13:29] <Jim> Thanks, Chris.
[13:29] <Cleo> you too
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[13:30] <LossGlazier> Jennifer!
[13:30] ***Cleo has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
[13:30] <jley> rats ... I am so late
[13:31] <jley> I am soooo sorry
[13:31] <Jim> Hi Jen, no prob.
[13:31] <jley> i have a new computer and trying to keep the software straight is nuts
[13:31] <jley> Loss how are you??
[13:31] <LossGlazier> Good.
[13:31] <Jim> We were discussing Loss's upcoming book, Jen.
[13:32] <jley> ahh when is it due out??
[13:32] <LossGlazier> in one year
[13:32] <Jim> Anything else you want to say about the book, Loss? And are there any url's out there concerning it?
[13:32] <jley> that must feel strange with the speed of e work
[13:32] <LossGlazier> it's like being shot by a tranquilizer gun
[13:32] <jley> hehe
[13:33] <LossGlazier> here i'm told hurry up get it in finish it finalize it update references and stats then BAM
[13:33] <LossGlazier> a year
[13:33] <LossGlazier> but that's a kind of challenge
[13:33] <jley> so they suddenly put the brakes on?
[13:33] <jley> it must be ... you really have to think about what will stay relevant
[13:33] <LossGlazier> no, that's the speedy version for an academic press
[13:33] <jley> is it an overview of the field? theory?
[13:34] <Jim> brb
[13:34] <LossGlazier> yes, write about concepts and ideas rather than specific events
[13:34] <jley> that makes it easier then
[13:34] <LossGlazier> i would say it does these things:
[13:34] <LossGlazier> 1) make connections between innovative poetry practice and digital media
[13:34] <LossGlazier> 2) catalog a number of digital projects/activities out there
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[13:35] <Drone> sorry, i crashed -
[13:35] <LossGlazier> and 3) look at ways of conceiving the medium, the value of code, ways of reading, etc.
[13:35] <Drone> i'm claire
[13:35] <jley> hi claire :)
[13:35] <Drone> hi
[13:35] <jley> 1 is really necessary ... I'm so glad you're addressing that
[13:36] <LossGlazier> it all fits together well i think
[13:36] <LossGlazier> we talked a lot about 1 before you got here
[13:36] <jley> :(
[13:36] <Drone> 1?
[13:36] <LossGlazier> hopefully you can see the transcript!
[13:36] <jley> did you want to talk about the other two ??
[13:36] <jley> i know Jim will do the transcript ...looking forward to that
[13:37] <LossGlazier> yes
[13:37] <jley> claire : 1) make connections between innovative poetry practice and digital media
[13:37] <jley> and your own work?
[13:37] <Jim> What are you doing now in poetical work, Loss?
[13:37] <Drone> thanks
[13:37] <Jim> Though all this is poetical.
[13:37] <LossGlazier> That's a good question.
[13:38] <LossGlazier> I think I have always worked (a thunderstorm is coming ... the electricity might go here!)
[13:38] <LossGlazier> (Lights are flickering on and off ...)
[13:38] <jley> ick
[13:38] *jley is so excited to be able to talk poetry turkey in the flesh with Loss this week
[13:38] <Jim> Lightning above the Defib raft.
[13:39] <LossGlazier> Well it's a charged (hehe) emotional experience but not good for the computer to suddenly be whacked off.
[13:39] <LossGlazier> Yes, Jim, Jennifer will be in Buffalo next week!
[13:39] <Jim> Cool.
[13:40] *jley can make amends for being so late
[13:40] <Jim> I might get a trip to New York in the next few months, we'll see.
[13:40] <LossGlazier> Let me know if you do! It would be great if you could fit in a visit this way, too.
[13:40] <Jim> Would love to. Have a client in New York right now.
[13:40] <jley> so are you continuing to explore things along the lines of the presentation at DAC Loss?
[13:41] *jley ponders actually meeting The Jim
[13:41] *Jim chuckles also
[13:41] <Jim> Would be great, Jen, you could show me your town.
[13:41] <jley> indeedie
[13:42] <Jim> But back to your work, Loss, are you working on any poems right now?
[13:43] <LossGlazier> Yes
[13:43] <LossGlazier> I'd say I like to explore a certain potential in the work.
[13:43] <jley> potential for?
[13:43] <LossGlazier> Jim, yes. I have a new piece in the latest Deluxe Rubber Chicken.
[13:43] <LossGlazier> (See the EPC featured resource.)
[13:43] <Jim> OK, will do.
[13:43] <LossGlazier> It's something I like, similar to my work called "Bouge", where
[13:43] <LossGlazier> there's a kind of lightness I like
[13:44] <LossGlazier> like pattern curtains blowing in the breeze
[13:44] <jley> sounds really interesting :)
[13:44] <LossGlazier> and you quietly watch the flickering patterns on the wall
[13:44] <Jim> curtains between what and what?
[13:45] <LossGlazier> i think there's always a curtain between what we attempt to make
[13:45] <LossGlazier> and what the medium allows.

April 2, 2000
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