12:22 - 13:00
Session Start: Sun Apr 16 12:09:10 2000
[12:22] ***Now talking in #defib
[12:22] <cinader> i'm still asking what is the world wide web, or what can it become?
[12:23] <Surd> Well, it's a hell of a lot poorer this week.
[12:23] <Surd> With the stock crash.
[12:23] <cinader> don't pay too much attention to that
[12:23] <cinader> art is generally begging for money no matter which way the stocks go
[12:24] <Surd> Yes, that's true.
[12:24] ***tombell has joined #defib
[12:24] <Surd> Hi Tom!
[12:24] <cinader> hi tom
[12:25] <tombell> hi, all
[12:27] <cinader> jim asked about the experience of performance which is closely related to my general theme at
[12:27] <cinader> the moment
[12:27] <Surd> This is performance as well, yes/
[12:27] <cinader> for me, my "art" is closely related to
[12:27] <cinader> my body
[12:28] <Surd> How so?
[12:28] <cinader> so i suppose you could argue that typing is performing
[12:28] <cinader> the performance of my writing is integral to my work
[12:29] <cinader> intonation, phrasing, rhythm, rhyme, expression, etc
[12:29] <Surd> Yes, I liked the way you and your band combine poetry and music...
[12:29] <cinader> thank you
[12:29] <cinader> i have also done quite a bit of storytelling
[12:29] <Surd> In readings, you mean?
[12:29] <cinader> for audiences of all sizes and ages
[12:30] <cinader> well, readings, festivals, jazz clubs, libraries, schools, hospitals...
[12:30] <Surd> I'm interested in the difference between the performance and the page...
[12:31] <tombell> can you expand on the use of the body, martha. I feel i use the body to 'gesture in my visuals
[12:32] <cinader> yes tom
[12:33] <cinader> first of all there is the discipline of my body, or training
[12:33] <cinader> deep breathing, vocal techniques, general health and vitality
[12:34] <cinader> then there is the use of the body as a vessel during a performance or while practicing
[12:34] <cinader> when you speak of visuals i'm not sure if you mean digital visuals or physical ones
[12:35] <cinader> at any rate, even while i sing praises of the web
[12:35] <cinader> i also rebel against the many hours my body is held hostage at my computer
[12:35] <tombell> vessal? as in cauldron or transmitter?
[12:36] <cinader> yes, i like either one of those
[12:37] <tombell> that was a choice question but i can see they both apply
[12:37] <Surd> Is your writing for the page different from your writing for live performance?
[12:37] <cinader> probably
[12:38] <cinader> sometimes i read things and wish i could change them because they have changed
[12:38] <cinader> after repeated performances
[12:38] <tombell> i've found a difference in work for the net and for print
[12:39] <cinader> yes i agree, the net needs to be broken up into parts
[12:39] <tombell> maybe we should wait for others?
[12:39] <cinader> and presented with the possibility for participation
[12:39] <cinader> we can wait,
[12:40] <Surd> I like the possibility the web presents of doing all these things in the same piece.
[12:40] <cinader> anxious to stick to my topic though, as i would like to explore it in depth
[12:40] <cinader> but what is the web?
[12:40] <cinader> i ask again
[12:41] <cinader> i don't want to accept that it is this network we are all accepting too quickly
[12:41] <cinader> sorry to be redundant
[12:41] <Surd> It carries signals of whatever can be digitized however they can be interpreted between me and you.
[12:42] <cinader> that's a good start
[12:42] <cinader> let me add
[12:42] <cinader> it can be a combination of many mediums
[12:43] <cinader> and could be accessable (spelling?) to everyone
[12:43] <Surd> Mediums can be viewed as different 'protocols' in which info is encoded.
[12:43] <Surd> A picture and a sound are just streams of bits.
[12:43] <Surd> It's the protocol that distinguishes them.
[12:45] <cinader> for me, what is exciting is streams of bits
[12:45] <cinader> produced organically
[12:45] <cinader> streaming live from one point to another
[12:45] <cinader> and creating synergy between those two points
[12:46] <cinader> experienced on BOTH ends
[12:46] <Surd> Yes, like now
[12:46] <Surd> Your bits are wriggling
[12:46] <Surd> My bits are wriggling
[12:46] <Surd> Wriggling text bits
[12:47] <Surd> Hard to capture that in the transcript
[12:47] <cinader> chuckle, yes
[12:47] <cinader> a different experience from reading the transcript
[12:47] <Surd> Have you thought of setting up a radio station on the Net, Martha?
[12:47] <cinader> now if only we could get to know a few more people in africa
[12:48] <cinader> even some of the ones without electricity in their homes
[12:48] <cinader> yes, i have thought of having Planet AUTHORity community radio
[12:48] <cinader> and have very recently (as in yesterday) come to the conclusion that
[12:48] <cinader> i must put PA in archive mode so that i can put my energies
[12:49] <cinader> into it's behind the scenes growth for a couple months
[12:49] <Surd> Your interest in the live and in broadcast suggests you might gravitate that way, or other broadcast enterprises or on your own or with e-poets and other poets doing that, well you have been doing that...
[12:49] <cinader> well yes, i have been doing some of that
[12:49] <Surd> There is one person on the list from Africa but have never heard from him/her...
[12:49] <cinader> i have also done several radio dramas...
[12:50] <cinader> i brought up africa in context with the recent thread on this list
[12:50] <cinader> my point is that the "infrastructure" of personal computers is limited
[12:50] <Surd> Yes, that thread eddies around many issues
[12:50] <cinader> and i think egotistical
[12:51] <cinader> and disembodies
[12:51] <cinader> i keep using that word
[12:51] <tombell> i feel a lack in not having audio capability - i'm sure those in Africa feel lots of lacks/
[12:51] <cinader> but i am reaching for a more communal experience
[12:52] <Surd> True, it disembodies, but then so does any medium of communication, to some extent, doesn't it?
[12:52] <cinader> i wish you could walk to your public park tom, and talk to someone in africa on a giant video
[12:52] <cinader> screen
[12:52] <cinader> maybe you would have to use sign language....
[12:53] <cinader> any medium of communication?
[12:53] <cinader> i suppose any medium other than singing or speaking etc
[12:54] <Surd> Any medium where the communication is not live and face to face in the moment, more or less unmediated.
[12:54] <cinader> yes
[12:54] <cinader> in radio, it's all about the voice
[12:54] <cinader> on television it's subtlety of expression
[12:55] <Surd> Yes, in radio the voice, disembodied.
[12:55] <cinader> but radio is also probably the most accessable medium in the world
[12:56] <Surd> Yes, I remember making a radio when I was a kid from a kit.
[12:56] <Surd> Radio is the one and only in many places.
[12:56] <tombell> even in person communication can be disembodied or masked
[12:56] <cinader> that's true too
[12:56] <tombell> but in general radio seems the most authentic
[12:56] <Surd> Yes, Tom's a psychologist... 8-)
[12:57] <cinader> i'm not arguing against technology, or favoring any medium
[12:57] <cinader> only asking the question
[12:57] <cinader> how can we create something that everyone can have access to?
[12:57] <Surd> The question of 'what's authentic'?
[12:58] <cinader> how, also can we create experiences that even
[12:58] <cinader> though using some sort of technology
[12:58] <cinader> can still involve several senses and invoke some of
[12:58] <cinader> the magic of theater
[12:59] <cinader> ?
[12:59] <Surd> The article by Harpold suggests that dreams of a truly world wide communication system are dysfunctional.
[12:59] <cinader> dysfunctional?
[13:00] <cinader> people told nicola tesla the same thing about radio
[13:00] <Surd> And the article suggests that the rhetoric around that dream masks a disregard for the reality of the situation, that it is not possible now or in the foreseeable future.
[13:00] <cinader> haven't the read the article
[13:00] <cinader> but i don't like to talk about what's not possible
[13:01] <cinader> i prefer to push for what i believe is possible

Apr 16/2000
a project of &