13:01 - 13:30
[13:01] <cinader> i prefer to push for what i believe is possible
[13:01] <cinader> even if i only accomplish it in part
[13:01] <Surd> Basically the article anticipates a recapitulation of colonialism in the electrosphere.
[13:01] <tombell> if you think something is impossible it is!
[13:02] ***dirk has joined #defib
[13:02] <cinader> certainly many signs point to that
[13:02] <cinader> and i struggle against it
[13:02] <Surd> Well hello there Dirk!
[13:02] <cinader> pacifica radio also seems like an impossiblity
[13:02] <dirk> hi
[13:02] <tombell> hi, dirk
[13:02] <cinader> yet wbai has existed for more than thirty years
[13:02] <cinader> with no corporate sponsorship of any kind
[13:02] <Surd> Yes, those Pacifica stations are important.
[13:03] <cinader> i believe it is my responsibility to reach beyond a corporate
[13:03] <cinader> model of "the web"
[13:03] <tombell> say more, martha
[13:04] <tombell> how?
[13:04] <Surd> Cool. Same here. But you also are not alergic to commercial elements in your site... you combine a non corporate with a commercial dimension.
[13:04] <cinader> that's true, searching for a way to pay....
[13:04] <cinader> will probably remove the banner ads soon
[13:04] <cinader> because i don't think they pay enough!
[13:04] <Surd> And to integrate into the biz of the Web?
[13:05] <tombell> i keep the ads as it seems probably 'ads' underlie everything today
[13:05] <cinader> yeah, yeah, yeah, i want to sell my cds like everyone else
[13:05] <cinader> and i'm a single mother who loves the convenience
[13:05] <cinader> of shopping on the web
[13:05] <Surd> I am not criticizing, Martha,
[13:05] <cinader> but all that is kind of insignificant
[13:05] <cinader> i want to set up huge video screens
[13:06] <Surd> Sufi's say 'Easier to be a sage on the mountaintop than in the marketplace.'
[13:06] <cinader> get a bunch of kids off the street
[13:06] <cinader> put them in the theater and let them collaborate
[13:06] <cinader> with kids around the world
[13:06] <cinader> make the corporations pay for it
[13:06] <cinader> and not even let them put up any billboards
[13:06] <cinader> they owe it to the next generation
[13:06] <cinader> in my estimation
[13:07] <cinader> "didn't interpret it as criticism" just trying to get beyond the browser
[13:07] <Surd> Yes, providing some vision and direction for the future of the Web is important.
[13:08] <Surd> I see our Web sites and Web activities as being directed, in part, to that end.
[13:08] <cinader> that's true, they certainly play an integral and crucial role
[13:08] <Surd> Toward soul therein...
[13:09] <cinader> ? please elaborate tom
[13:11] <Surd> I think Tom is multitasking 8-)
[13:11] <tombell> on? Everything today occurs in the media of ads - coke ads in africa
[13:11] ***cinader has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
[13:11] <tombell> for example
[13:11] <Surd> Martha overboard!
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[13:12] <Surd> Hand the poor woman a towel. How's the water, Martha?
[13:12] <Surd> Here's a towel, luv.
[13:12] <cinader> i think i got disconnected
[13:12] <cinader> did i get wet?
[13:12] <Surd> Sometimes the waves getcha.
[13:13] <cinader> lucky i'm a whale
[13:13] <Surd> haha
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[13:13] <Surd> Hi Mezzie!
[13:13] <tombell> hi, mez
[13:13] <mez> lo all:)
[13:14] <mez> sorry 4 b-ing late
[13:14] <Surd> You're excused luv.
[13:14] <Surd> You're an early bird nonetheless.
[13:14] <cinader> you are so gracious jim
[13:14] <Surd> I got up at 11
[13:14] ***mez is now known as Guest90199
[13:14] <Guest90199> nick mezzie
[13:14] <Guest90199> oops
[13:14] <Surd> Identity crisis!
[13:14] <Guest90199> how do i change my nick please?
[13:14] <Guest90199> eheh
[13:15] <Surd> hmm...
[13:15] <Surd> type /nick yournewname
[13:15] ***Guest90199 is now known as mezzie
[13:15] <Surd> It isn't always so simple.
[13:15] <mezzie> weird...juzt did that and it didn't wurk...oh well is now.
[13:16] <Surd> and now is well also
[13:16] <mezzie> ;)
[13:16] <mezzie> so where r we up to in the chat?
[13:16] <Surd> Tom was talking about the place of ads in everything
[13:16] <cinader> looking toward the horizon
[13:17] <mezzie> righte, sounds n-teresting, specially the horizon byte;)
[13:17] <tombell> ads are everywhere - need to be conscious of them
[13:18] ***Jim2 is now known as Other
[13:18] <cinader> yes, you might say they run our lives
[13:18] <cinader> they fund our art
[13:18] <tombell> coke in africa and the louve in Vegas
[13:18] <mezzie> tombell, do u mean they're n-sid.e.uoz becoz of this? meaning they may taint artistic practice?
[13:19] ***Other is now known as Guest47928
[13:19] <cinader> well, artists shit too
[13:19] <tombell> no not taint art but art can use them
[13:19] <cinader> excuse my language
[13:19] <mezzie> cinader>;)
[13:19] <cinader> can we define the world wide web
[13:19] <cinader> instead of art?
[13:19] ***Guest47928 is now known as jimorca
[13:20] <cinader> get beyond banner ads
[13:20] <cinader> to multi-media tele-theater
[13:20] <mezzie> so it's a process of appropraition? reappropriation etc [n-sert m-mage of a snake eatin itz taile]...
[13:20] <cinader> without billboards
[13:20] <cinader> or even with billboards
[13:20] <cinader> i don't actually care that much
[13:20] <mezzie> cinader--wot an n-triguin ideer! can u say more?
[13:21] <cinader> would love to go on all day about it
[13:21] <cinader> picture two theaters
[13:21] <cinader> two audiences
[13:21] <cinader> four video screens
[13:21] <cinader> twenty televisions
[13:21] <cinader> a script written by collaboration on the internet
[13:22] <cinader> two casts
[13:22] <cinader> streaming over www2
[13:22] <cinader> maybe you would need a few windows open in your browser
[13:22] <cinader> to spy on the live event from your pc
[13:22] <cinader> from a few different camera angles
[13:22] <mezzie> so streamin the whole process/ jump cutz 2 the audience lookin stunned etc?;)
[13:23] <cinader> that could happen
[13:23] <cinader> i would have a camera on each audience
[13:23] <cinader> have them participate like a greek chorus
[13:23] <cinader> see each other
[13:23] <cinader> wave at each other
[13:23] <cinader> talk to each other before or after the performance
[13:24] *Surd powders his good side
[13:24] <cinader> chuckle
[13:24] <dirk> cool! would require plenty of $ though
[13:25] <mezzie> so the x-perience wood x-tend from the real-life purrformance net.wurk tendrilled thru the of the web?
[13:25] <cinader> yeah, i estimate about a quarter million for one event
[13:25] <dirk> wow!
[13:25] <Surd> Martha has been involved in a lot of the e-poet multicast events.
[13:25] <cinader> yeah, mez, exactly
[13:25] <mezzie> jeez...
[13:26] <cinader> yeah, the e-poets are building a great network
[13:26] <Surd> Could you describe the basics of those events?
[13:26] <cinader> i've also worked with/been inspired by
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[13:27] <Surd> Speak of the devil!
[13:27] <kheintz> hey!
[13:27] <cinader> hi kurt, right on time!
[13:27] <Surd> Hi Kurt, Jim here, good to have you here.
[13:27] <kheintz> Sorry for missing anything... but my ears were burning.
[13:27] <kheintz> Thanks, Jim.
[13:28] <Surd> Kurt masterminds
[13:28] <cinader> yeah, i was talking about my vision of a tele-play
[13:28] <cinader> and the beautiful network you are building
[13:28] <kheintz> where there are performers in two sites at the same time?
[13:28] <kheintz> Oh, well... you add quite a bit to it, Martha.
[13:28] <cinader> yes, with audience participation
[13:28] <kheintz> Audience is king.
[13:28] <cinader> i wrote a color coded script for such an event at
[13:29] <cinader> the website, would of course be crucial
[13:29] <cinader> but not the end in itself
[13:29] <kheintz> Martha's a pioneer in this work, I feel, because she's very audience-centered.
[13:29] <Surd> Are transcripts or archives involved in this vision, Martha?
[13:29] <kheintz> too many people just push, push, push... it's all about visibility and no dialog.

Apr 16/2000
a project of &