13:30 - 14:00
[13:30] <cinader> yes, jim
[13:30] <Surd> What sort, Martha?
[13:30] <cinader> one nice thing about the web is certainly that we can access it at our
[13:31] <tombell> i think here and webartery are good examples of dia (multi) logues
[13:31] <mezzie> this is a qz for both kheintz N cinader, juzt wonderin about yr compulzion 2 make an n-terface for both reallife and online eventz? y want 2 do this [eye.e reconcile the 2 spheres?]
[13:31] <cinader> convenience and find the information we want
[13:31] <cinader> yes, i think so mez, gets back to my need to
[13:31] <cinader> integrate the experience with my body
[13:32] <kheintz> Hmmm... Well, Mezzie, I see it in different but non-conflictive ways.
[13:32] <cinader> and get the give and take of an audience\
[13:32] <kheintz> I'm more of a communication-phile. Ah... yes, Martha. The _audience_.
[13:32] <tombell> say more about body involvement please martha
[13:32] <kheintz> The audience is the unspoken (though not always) voice in any stage production.
[13:32] <mezzie> [listenin]
[13:33] <cinader> i'm never happier than when i am on stage
[13:33] <dirk> martha -- when you say the audience would be a greek chorus...
[13:33] <dirk> what do you envision them doing?
[13:33] *Surd is outunspoken
[13:33] <cinader> i used to record radio dramas live
[13:33] *mezzie wants 2 m-ulate surd, but is really not ahwake this moring...
[13:33] <cinader> sometimes before the show i would rehearse the audience on some sound
[13:34] <cinader> sfx they could do on cue
[13:34] <cinader> sometimes i would improvise unexpectedly with them
[13:34] *mezzie tries to m-magine the m-pact audience wize ov a production like thizz....
[13:34] <cinader> all this created an intimacy which would not have happened otherwise
[13:34] <mezzie> m-prov seems crucial in this streaming web-theatre ideer, is feebac taken in2 account?
[13:34] *Surd feels that presence is the key
[13:35] <cinader> part of the appeal is that the audiences can interact with each other
[13:35] <cinader> ahh, lovely feedback, everpresent feedback, reliable feedback
[13:35] *Surd and that presence/spirit moves in many ways and shapes
[13:35] <tombell> would like to do that with my web pioeces without sound
[13:35] <cinader> yes, the body is present, surd, the keyboard is somehow just solid
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[13:36] <cinader> although we are all present somehow here together
[13:36] <Surd> Presence can happen in a book.
[13:36] <mezzie> reiner!! helloah!
[13:36] <reiner> helooooo-l
[13:36] <cinader> yes presence can happen in a book and i love to read...
[13:36] <Surd> Hi Reiner!
[13:36] *mezzie thinks of all thoze "willing suspense of disbelief" type convos:)
[13:36] <cinader> wouldn't recommend the dissolution of any medium
[13:36] <tombell> the body gesture comes before the keyboard
[13:36] <cinader> but search for ways of inclusion
[13:36] <tombell> hi reiner
[13:37] <cinader> yeah, before the keyboard is the breath
[13:37] <cinader> and the electric impulse to the brain
[13:37] <cinader> hi reiner
[13:37] <reiner> :)
[13:37] <Surd> Sure, Martha, I think that presence and soul on the Web is crucial, however it is created/revealed.
[13:38] *mezzie dittoh surd's comme.n[e]tz
[13:38] <kheintz> Martha, feedback is such a simple idea, but it can create the most complex results. Often presence is all that's needed to start the feedback going. Have you imagined anything where the feedback is the prime generative force in the work?
[13:38] <cinader> teehee, i thought you were talking abou the other kind of feedback
[13:38] <cinader> like through a soundsystem
[13:38] <kheintz> well... either kind!
[13:39] <kheintz> Fractals are feedback systems, simply in numerical form.
[13:39] <kheintz> Video feedback generates random mandalas.
[13:39] <cinader> i'm sure they are, but don't know much abou;that
[13:39] *mezzie uses feebac quite regularily in her email purrformancez.....
[13:39] <cinader> we used video feedback for backgrounds in mission of love
[13:40] <cinader> email performances?
[13:40] <cinader> sorry i'm not hip to that
[13:40] <kheintz> How would/do you use the audience/audience feedback in your work?
[13:40] <cinader> i've written poems with parts for the audience
[13:40] <Surd> I've seen posts from Mez that include posts from others responding to posts from Mez...
[13:41] <kheintz>
[13:41] <cinader> i've written cameo roles in radio dramas which i cast on the spot
[13:41] <mezzie> cinader>>basicalli sendin out a f[ict/]action piece via a multitude of mailing lizts and n-corporate any feedbac from the "audience" in2 it...evolves that way...
[13:41] <cinader> i get something sometimes from seeing how people respond to me
[13:41] <mezzie> helpz shape the work in strange waze...
[13:41] <cinader> i can dig it
[13:42] <mezzie> ;)
[13:42] <cinader> sometimes a person's reaction will make me think to say something
[13:42] <cinader> and i won't always know where it came from
[13:42] <cinader> heckling too
[13:42] <kheintz> do you find these reactions shift with the different countries where you perform?
[13:43] <kheintz> For example, Hamburg, New York?
[13:43] <cinader> maybe a major differemce in the concept of art today
[13:43] <cinader> is interactivity
[13:43] <cinader> as opposed to the old concept of the artist
[13:43] <cinader> in the tower
[13:44] <cinader> hamburg-they love jazz
[13:44] <cinader> california-they recognize when i quote from lord buckley
[13:44] <tombell> have to go and interact with my family, bye all
[13:44] <Surd> Yes, that's important, I agree (interactivity), though art is always already interactive...
[13:44] <mezzie> shore, sounds acc-curate, though i have a prob with interactivity as a wurd, prefewr 2 use network/ed to get accross the same idea[l]...
[13:44] <cinader> new york-they're too cool for school
[13:44] <mezzie> cya tom
[13:44] <Surd> Thanks, Tom.
[13:44] <reiner> ciao tom
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[13:45] <cinader> yes network is fine with me
[13:45] <Surd> That's a good one, Mez.
[13:45] <Surd> A keeper.
[13:45] <cinader> so networked
[13:45] <mezzie> juzt seems 2 make more semantic sense:)
[13:46] <cinader> but can't we include more than our pc's?
[13:46] <Surd> That's what you use instead of web art or net art too, yes?
[13:46] <Surd>
[13:46] <mezzie> ooh sure, i mean as in a n-filtratin rhizomatic ideer, not limited to techne...
[13:47] <cinader> ok, can't find my dictionary
[13:47] <mezzie> i use net.wurk actualli, as in "whoar have a look at thoze net.wurks!";)
[13:47] <cinader> rhizomatic?
[13:47] <Surd> eheh
[13:47] <Surd> A rhizome is a tree/plant
[13:48] <mezzie> cinader>> i mean where there are specific nodes in a web of information, or group, or activity...which combine....dependant on the variables...
[13:48] <kheintz> (rhizomatic: prop. means root-like, connected through small, filament tendrils, as in the the finest hair roots)
[13:48] <Surd> where the root system is not typical but spreads and is not centralized...
[13:48] <mezzie> oh sorry didn't know u wher askin bout the meaning of the word [silly me]
[13:48] <cinader> that's nice surd
[13:49] <cinader> like the whales swimming around
[13:49] <Surd> yah!
[13:49] <cinader> sometimes i have a conflict with interactivity
[13:49] <cinader> though
[13:49] <Surd> The poor things must have a lot of noise on the line these days.
[13:49] <mezzie> like a spiderz web i always think of it [even though i'm scared of em]:)
[13:49] <cinader> yeah i like spider
[13:50] <cinader> because it is a feminine archetype
[13:50] <mezzie> y the conflict cinader?
[13:50] <Surd> Or several spider webs joined together?
[13:50] <cinader> it encourages me that we are moving toward a more
[13:50] <mezzie> surd>.sure
[13:50] <cinader> cooperative model of life
[13:50] <cinader> the conflict?
[13:50] <mezzie> yup
[13:50] <cinader> because i like to create beautiful things
[13:50] <cinader> and don't always want anyone else to touch them
[13:51] <cinader> just appreciate them
[13:51] <mezzie> righte....
[13:51] <reiner> in an aesthetical view ?
[13:51] <cinader> but appreciation is being touched...
[13:51] <cinader> i wrote mission of love in iambic pentameter
[13:51] <mezzie> spose the way i deal with that is n-courage other similarili-weighted contributions/feedbac....[conceptual of otherwize]
[13:51] <cinader> didn't like when the actors improvised with my lines
[13:52] <kheintz> :D
[13:52] <mezzie> oopz of=or
[13:52] <cinader> of course they did it anyway....
[13:52] <kheintz> Always out to show who has the final word... actors.
[13:52] <cinader> ha ha
[13:53] <dirk> mez -- so you sort of filter the input from others?
[13:53] <cinader> yeah, make arrangements
[13:53] <cinader> don't censor them
[13:53] <kheintz> This is interesting, Martha, because on one hand you favor receptive ideas, but
[13:53] <cinader> put let happen in the right time and place
[13:53] <cinader> sorry put is but
[13:54] <kheintz> ... on the other you also want your language as you intended it. Is this conflictive?
[13:54] <cinader> yeah, it doesn't have to be conflictive, or autocratic
[13:54] <mezzie> dirk>.not really, i'm not big on filterin, if some1 wants 2 contribute something i'll find a way 2 n-clood it, but i like to n-courage similar treatmentz..
[13:54] <cinader> in the end
[13:54] <cinader> people come to a show because they wan to be entertained
[13:54] <dirk> i c
[13:54] <kheintz> Ah, I see.
[13:55] <mezzie> *damn* it's 7 am here, i havta get readi 4 wurk:(
[13:55] <Surd> Arg
[13:55] <reiner> oh-no :)
[13:55] <Surd> Yeah, it's Monday in Oz.
[13:55] <cinader> thanks for coming by
[13:55] <kheintz> Good point, M. There are many people who think art is too precious to be considered entertainment.
[13:55] <mezzie> thx 2 all for this chat, and good luc cinader & kheintz..the wurk sounds great!
[13:55] <cinader> well if it's not entertaining i'm likely to fall asleep
[13:55] <Surd> Thanks, Mez!
[13:55] <kheintz> !
[13:55] <mezzie> bia bia all:)
[13:55] <reiner> luv-mez :)
[13:56] <cinader> hi reiner
[13:56] <kheintz> bye, mez.
[13:56] ***mezzie has quit IRC (QUIT: User exited)
[13:56] <dirk> by mez!
[13:57] <cinader> what's your latest event in progress kurt?
[13:57] <Surd> I like the way the web combines or breaks down borders between art and other activities.
[13:57] <Surd> Just like it breaks down borders between arts
[13:57] <Surd> and borders between art and science...
[13:57] <cinader> certainly we have all crossed many borders in the last half decade
[13:57] <kheintz> Latest? Well, last week we did an homage to Ginsberg with the SPLAB. On 7 May, we're doing a link-up with the Edgwise (Vancouver) people, with teen writers at both ends.
[13:58] <cinader> that sounds great
[13:58] <cinader> sorry to be out of touch
[13:58] <Surd> Could you describe the basics of these events?
[13:58] <kheintz> The kids are wonderful. This will be the sixth such link-up in as many years.
[13:58] <cinader> my little lovely baby has me going night and day
[13:58] <kheintz> Yes! Rob Wittig said you have quite a handful with your baby!
[13:58] <Surd> Is it a connection between two places, for instance?
[13:59] <cinader> yes, jim
[13:59] <Surd> Not three, etc.
[13:59] <cinader> with kurt we have done it over a regular telephone line
[13:59] <cinader> with the oceanofk we used isdn lines
[13:59] <Surd> Are there archives of the events?
[13:59] <kheintz> to Surd>> Video link-ups. We do a two-way video connection (H.324 technology) between Chicago and our remote partners. Martha's done this with us here, last December for GiG, sponsored by the Electronic Literature Organization.
[13:59] <cinader> interestingly at the event i described at nyu it was over a regular line, but a different web and the
[14:00] <cinader> sound was superb
[14:00] <cinader> and streaming

Apr 16/2000
a project of &