14:30 - 14:55
[14:30] <Surd> Is this a kind of conceptual art?
[14:30] <cinader> well i guess it could be
[14:30] <cinader> in this context it was an educational tool
[14:31] <gbhz> i don't know, but there is an idea of what a human can do in this environment
[14:31] <gbhz> in fact we did with the technology we had
[14:31] <Surd> Cool.
[14:32] <gbhz> so the device use the net but remain low-tech
[14:32] <gbhz> no joystick ;-)
[14:32] <Surd> eheha
[14:33] <cinader> yeah in this case there was no computer
[14:33] <gbhz> in wicn case?
[14:33] <cinader> sorry
[14:33] <cinader> the experiments at ocean of know i was describing (
[14:34] <cinader> as i keep saying, i hope the environment need not be limited to a pc
[14:34] <gbhz> i have a look
[14:35] <Surd> Yes, sites as conduits between people, conduits of various protocols...
[14:35] <cinader> maybe the more protocols the better
[14:35] <cinader> kurt has built a network around the HR whatever it is boxes
[14:35] <Surd> Yes...
[14:35] <Surd> HR?
[14:36] <kheintz> I found that more protocols actually diffused us too much. We lost our sense of community.
[14:36] <cinader> while some designers are calling for standards for browsers
[14:36] <cinader> i am waving a flag for more diversity
[14:36] <cinader> but you have created a community kurt
[14:36] <kheintz> (Main reason I just went out and bought the same kind of v-phones for everybody. At least we weren't stuck in babble, electronically.)
[14:36] <cinader> exactly, a smart thing to do
[14:37] <kheintz> True, and thanks to your work, Martha, it's a growing one.
[14:37] <Surd> A sculpture consisting of pipes. A site consisting of communications conduits. A digeriedo, a rose...
[14:37] <cinader> and inexpensive
[14:37] <cinader> the experiment at nyu i referred to did the same thing
[14:37] <cinader> built their own web between universities so that they were able to stream
[14:38] <cinader> high quality video and audio
[14:38] <cinader> actually that is a bit of a revelation to me at this moment
[14:39] <cinader> i am lacking a choice of protocol, and the community which shares it
[14:39] <kheintz> That's something I envy -- broadband, high-quality sound and video -- because the average audience member doesn't assume it has a way to develop before artists like us can put live video to work. They just wonder, "Why does it look so poor?" They're waiting for real TV on their computers.
[14:40] <cinader> yeah i hear ya
[14:40] <kheintz> ... and we're waiting for their recognition, mostly from a technicality.
[14:40] <cinader> we need to build a network of broadband
[14:40] <reiner> have to leave now - thanks for the interesting time ---- lovetoall ...
[14:40] <cinader> personally i'm not waiting for recognition
[14:40] <cinader> by reiner
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[14:40] <dirk> martha -- have you done networked interactive music of any kind?
[14:40] <kheintz> Agreed. It's OK to low-ball a project -- I rather like the guerilla aspects of needing only a phone line to start a videoconference.
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[14:41] <kheintz> But it would be great to have a broadband network among us. I'm ready for TV here already. Martha, from the sounds of it, you are, too.
[14:41] <cinader> yes i did an event between hamburg and new york
[14:41] <kheintz> Tell me more!
[14:41] <cinader> where i recited poetry with sabine worthmann playing upright bass in germany
[14:42] <kheintz> Ah, Sabine!
[14:42] <gbhz> a broadband yes, the trouble is by the final user
[14:42] <cinader> it was a little difficult because i could only hear her on the telephone!
[14:42] <cinader> she heard me in the club over the system though
[14:42] <kheintz> :-(
[14:42] <cinader> gbhz i don't understand what you mean
[14:43] <gbhz> i think the bradband exist between some points does'nt reach the user at home for exemple
[14:43] <kheintz> gbhz: agreed -- final viewers must have compatible systems, but there are worthwhile experiments going merely point-to-point with broadband. For example, Robert Ashley did a show from the Kitchen a year or so ago with half a quartet in LA and the other half in NY.
[14:44] <kheintz> Four singers -- two cities. One show.
[14:44] <kheintz> ... And two audiences.
[14:44] <cinader> gbhz-yes, but i would argue that i would prefer public places to private homes
[14:44] <gbhz> yes these are great experience...but did anybody on the net acceess to it?
[14:44] <kheintz> good point, Martha.
[14:44] <cinader> yes i am in love with the idea two audiences and would like them to be able to interact.
[14:45] <gbhz> two or more
[14:45] <cinader> would love to work with a technician who knew how to pipe several camera angles into a live
[14:45] <cinader> webcast
[14:45] <gbhz> i also like the idea of public spaces
[14:45] <cinader> the more the better gbhz
[14:45] <kheintz> Well, we can start with two and improve from there. Two audiences are more than anything you'll see in a conventional theater.
[14:45] <cinader> although we need to build up to large events with smaller ones
[14:46] <cinader> yes two is a lot more than one
[14:46] <gbhz> clear
[14:46] <gbhz> that's clear i mean
[14:46] <kheintz> Martha, where/how did you discover you wanted to to telepresent works?
[14:47] <cinader> well a combination of working with you kurt, and also with dan mcveigh at the ocean of
[14:47] <kheintz> You have a lot of different kinds of experience in telepresence where most people have only one show or so to their credit.
[14:47] <cinader> know, opened my mind to the possiblities. this combined with
[14:47] <kheintz> I'm just curious how you "got the bug."
[14:47] <cinader> my work writing/producing radio drama put it into the realm
[14:48] <cinader> of the possible toome
[14:48] <cinader> add an ethic of community involvement
[14:48] <cinader> and the idea that we need to work on a world wide community
[14:48] <cinader> that offers an alternative to the world bank, the world trade organization,
[14:49] <cinader> and distorted maps of the world too...
[14:49] <kheintz> (Amen!)
[14:49] <cinader> jim i want to thank you for inviting me this sunday
[14:49] <dirk> think you mentioned that this is more prevalent in europe than the us?
[14:50] <cinader> and all of you for participating
[14:50] <cinader> but i have to let the babysitter go
[14:50] <Surd> Thank you, Martha, it's been an interesting polylogue
[14:50] <cinader> sure has
[14:50] <gbhz> ok, it was great
[14:50] <cinader> it has been helpful actually
[14:50] <Surd> And thanks to all.
[14:50] <gbhz> thx 2 u
[14:50] <kheintz> Thanks indeed, Martha. And to you, too, Jim.
[14:50] <cinader> please visit me at or email
[14:50] <Surd> I look forward to exploring your site, gbhz.
[14:51] <cinader> bye
[14:51] <gbhz> ok i'll do the same, do u work on defib?
[14:51] <kheintz> yes! Very elaborate, gbhz.
[14:51] <Surd> Good to have you here, Kurt and Dirk.
[14:51] <kheintz> Bye, Martha!
[14:51] <dirk> thank you's to martha, jim, and all!
[14:51] <Surd> Yes, I'm Jim Andrews at and
[14:52] <gbhz> ok
[14:52] <Surd> And you, gbhz? You don't have to give your name if you don't want, of course.
[14:52] <dirk> signing off also
[14:52] <Surd> Thanks again, Dirk.
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[14:52] <gbhz> i think my name is not really relevant in this context ;-)
[14:53] <kheintz> Hmmm.... anonymity. ;-)
[14:53] <gbhz> no but to many nicknames ;-)
[14:53] <Surd> We make transcripts of the events that are available at
[14:54] <gbhz> ok, next time i'll try to be at the good time
[14:54] <kheintz> Well, I'm all out there, a proud partner of Martha's, and at - Kurt Heintz
[14:54] <kheintz> bye, all!
[14:54] <gbhz> we are very interested in online events
[14:54] <Surd> Well it's all a good time, glad you could make it.
[14:54] <Surd> See you, Kurt.
[14:54] <Surd> Thanks again.
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Session Close: Sun Apr 16 14:55:54 2000

Apr 16/2000
a project of &