<datahbleede> am i stayin tru 2 my vision or comp.rom.izing the act of mezangelling bi tranzlatin i guezz is wot i'm [deep]
<re_workinpr> ah...
<datahbleede> ethicz onne a grande[mal]scale i zoopose...all ov the ahbove bri:)
<jley> well mez if you look at that short thing above : s[h]elf censwhoring
<datahbleede> yeah jen?
<jley> there are so many ways to look at those two words interpretively
<jley> self on shelf
<jley> etc etc
<re_workinpr> shelf on self (ow!)
<datahbleede> eheh
* datahbleede whacks herself withe a shelf
<jley> I wonder if the translations can ever be as subtexturally rich as the original
<PbN> yes!
<PbN> maybe ultimately more
<jley> even if they are easier to read as almost ... poetry
<datahbleede> welle, i purr.son[N daughter] don't think sew, but have great re:actions 2 em...
<datahbleede> N i Kant stoppe em, the sounde juzt seems 2 b [wo]manifeztin bigtime...
<jley> the translations become very lyric ... for me
<datahbleede> yesh 2 the poetri call 2 jenn....
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<datahbleede> ted...u think the tranz can b moore/ can u saye more?
<re_workinpr> jen do you find the untranzlated ones lyric too?
<jley> not in the same way bri
<PbN> your trans taken together as a whole, M -- very rich ^between^s
* datahbleede N-gagez runran
<datahbleede> rightte
<datahbleede> yeah that makez sense
<runran> hi
<jley> depends on the audience ??
<re_workinpr> lyric = sound? or lyric = structure?
<datahbleede> think the waye itz goinge is a mad n-t-gration ov bothe,
<jley> lyric as in structure ... audience as in traditional lyric poetry audience who might not engage as easily with the originals
<datahbleede> butte knot in the traditional lyrical struct.ore notion...
<datahbleede> a mixe ov bothe mebbe?
<re_workinpr> oui, always i guess
<jley> sorry mez /// let us all just tell ya what you're doin' eh??? --- blush
<PbN> structure is obviously important in your work, M, as perhaps in most so-called 'code' poetries --
<datahbleede> ov courze the n-teractorz who particpate make the structural com.po[mo]entz stand out N sit uppe...
<PbN> can u say more?
<datahbleede> no no jen, that'z coole, have no prob with that, izz fas-sin-ating:)
<datahbleede> whoo me ted?
<PbN> :)
<datahbleede> ahbout struck.tore?
<PbN> am I wrong?
<datahbleede> hMM..well i spoze mi senze ov struck.tour comez fromme the netwurked 4matt more than anything else
<datahbleede> no no, knott wronge:)
<re_workinpr> i.e. structurally the mezangstexts require re-reading [reworking] ?
<re_workinpr> = invite collab?
<datahbleede> the spread ov simple text thru a email editore makez the procezz almozt sub-conciouz,
<jley> a participatory reader??
<datahbleede> ooh yeah
<datahbleede> like that phrase[ologee]
<jley> not that all readers aren't participatory ... but on another level
<datahbleede> part[icle]ishipatori read.her&him
<jley> :)
<datahbleede> the active notion comez 4m the structure, taking a tract that grabs me and re-wurkin it without a manifest planne, going with N all.most n-stinctuall procezz....
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* datahbleede n-gagez martha
<martha> hello! hello! hello!
<PbN> M, am thinking the process itself is structured (editing, translating -- digital!) rather than 'form' per se...
<martha> don't let me interrupt
<PbN> that the results are NOT entirely arbitrary or random, but... structured (mentally)...
<datahbleede> shore ted [martha n-turr.rupt all u like, thatz wot ircing is all about:)]
<reiner> trans_la_ting ?
<datahbleede> ..butte i also think that with-n that str[ict]ucture izz n N-normouz amount of lee-way, the structore/forme makez this procezz fluid...
<PbN> M, that was meant as a question... not a pronouncement...
<datahbleede> tranz-8.ting[!]
<datahbleede> :)
<reiner> do you trans-late ?
<datahbleede> ted, thoze fragmented echoz of the form procezz [editing, cutnpast-ting etc] show uppe the web ov the, make it pozzible 2 move b-yond simple text-based 4mulationz....
<PbN> yes
* datahbleede steppz down off her hi[fi]horze 4 a bitte;)
<jley> re: structure ... I think what I find interesting is that there seems to be no one way to mezang a word ... because the way you treat a word depends on its use and placement in context
<datahbleede> reiner, du i tranz.L8?
<Surd> If you were to read your work aloud, I imagine another translation would be in order.
<PbN> Jen -- good!
<datahbleede> ooh yeah surd, been thinkin ov that 2....
<Surd> I have 'read' some of my visual poetry, basically something else completely.
<reiner> translation would mean - there is an 'original' teXt be-fore (?)
<datahbleede> jenn yr rightte, wot i tri to do iz 2 tinge mi mezangelling 2 allow 4 the widezt possible n-terp, but with cur.tain[t] thingz re-ack-curring ova N ova...
<Surd> or 'interpretation' or just something else, though related.
<datahbleede> surd, how'd u du it?
<jley> thus it becomes a fluid and adaptable language ??
<martha> do you do much performance of your work mez? I would be interested in listening.
<Surd> do sound poetry to the piece... make a lot of noise.
<jley> we all want sound !!!!
<reiner> and some silence ;)
<re_workinpr> jen: i think of that 'w/reading' process as : scanning channels [contexts]
<PbN> yeah re
<datahbleede> that ahllow[!]ance doezzn't alwaze wurk ov courze, and the ob.scu[g]ritee facktor may b upped a bit, but i still tri 2 allow 4 the reader 2 N-gage on some lvl....
<datahbleede> s
<datahbleede> c
<datahbleede> a
<datahbleede> n
<jley> aha br
<datahbleede> n
<reiner> - do you have a big trash - mez ? :)
<datahbleede> i
<martha> seems to me the reader must engage simply to understand
<datahbleede> n
<datahbleede> ehehhe reiner, u guezzed it:)
<jley> brb
<datahbleede> martha, n-deed, yr right...spoze i'm tryin 2 make the procezz more complicated, but also simplified uzing the tranzlation approach...
<datahbleede> bri, yr scannin ideah, can u say moore?
<martha> i'm sorry i probably missed it, but what do you mean by tranzlation approach?
<Surd> yes, this is for others to read later, too.
<datahbleede> martha, latelee ive been manipulatin textz thru my mezangelling, then tranzlatin them "bac" in2 engleesh...
<PbN> as demo'd recent on list, Mar...
<re_workinpr> semantic channels, on analogy to radio frequencies or... email threads [or lists]...
<datahbleede> butte only thru a limi-ted approach, ie tranzlatin the literal interp, not n-corp.ore.ratin all the multilayers/hypergrams as bill calls em...
<datahbleede> got ewe bri.
<re_workinpr> re-reading back + forth for multiple resonance
<datahbleede> martha, i waz sayin b4 that i'm not shore if thiz m-plict translation is a compro.mize[r]...or a natural progrezzion ov the wurk itzelf.

June 4/2000
a project of