* jley is imagining a libretto of voices ... some mezang ... some the 'translations' ...
<Surd> is it motivated by a feeling that the mezangelling is too much for some or otherwise?
<datahbleede> bri, doez thizz scannin b-haviour shadow yr reel-life inpho n-tegration? doez 4 me....
<martha> ok, i haven't read the list this week....but is this sort of like translating hip hop for the non-hip on a cd cover?
<re_workinpr> yes, to my detriment sometimes :)
<martha> in the end it's all in how something is interpreted perhaps.
<datahbleede> surd, i hon.EST.lee kant say, but it pheelz like the wurk is hybridizing b-tween the 2, though i am itchin 2 get sounde in there 2...
* jley didn't see it that way ... the translations changed the meter of the work, its pacing ...
<datahbleede> martha, X_ACT.lee!! that's a purrfect N-al.oh.gee!
<martha> i like jley's idea. did you ever hear butch morris's chorus of poets anyone?
<datahbleede> jenn, yeah, i spoze i have a diffurrent take with a creat.ores biaz....
<jley> mezopera mezopera !!
<datahbleede> nope martha, tell uz ahbout itte?
<datahbleede> ehehhe mezanthroperah?
<martha> butch conducts musicians and poets, and poets and musicians, with
<martha> hand signals
<martha> he has a whole language which he uses
<martha> and replaces the more traditional "arrangement" with what he calls a conduction.
<jley> wow ... imagine using sign too mez ??? (my imagination is running away with itself)
<martha> yeah i love the idea of sign language
<martha> very international
<PbN> s y m b o l
<PbN> i c
* re_workinpr thinks 'conduction' = great trope !
<jley> and poetic ... once you start looking at how it works
<datahbleede> eheh jenn, yeah...wood b n-terestin with mi love ov the tact.tile...
<martha> yeah, he would have a signal for making sounds that circle, wave, get louder etc.
<martha> it's amazing how musicians, poets and even dj's can participate together and make music like that
* datahbleede muzes the t.ouch[e] N the netwurke...cablez of hand motionz, waves of hair strandingz into optic fibrez...
<re_workinpr> martha - is this improvised conduction or 'scored'?
<martha> improvised
<martha> a real mental workout really
<martha> i participated in a couple
<datahbleede> yeah?
<martha> you have to have a good memory because you have to remember what you just improvised...
<PbN> improv on structure
<martha> right, and of course familiarity with the "language"
<martha> rehearsals were rather entertaining
<datahbleede> ah, phamiliarity....
<martha> and family arguments
<datahbleede> :)
<Surd> At some point, Mez, I'd be interested in hearing your take on the political in your writing and elsewhere... is that a component of your writing?
<datahbleede> ooh
<jley> good question Jim
<datahbleede> thort thizz mite come up:)
<datahbleede> well, i tri not 2 actifflee wurk political state[wo]mentz in2 the mezangelled tracts, azz in i finde that wurk that is con[ned]structked pri.mar[yanne]ilee as politikal has an agender i juzt don't gelle with...
<datahbleede> ..BUTE> > > >
*** NoName has joined #defib
<datahbleede> ....ov courze my wurk in totalitee has a rampant political natore, even if it izz 2 highlighte some ov my own buggebearz that i tend 2 ab.strack conceptualli n hence, poll.ititicalli...
* datahbleede N-gagez noname
<NoName> hello mez :-)
<Surd> Does the phrase 'politics of the spirit' apply more than otherwise?
* PbN needs to run -- brb...
<datahbleede> ...4 egg.sample, my constant re.furr.all 2 woman instead ov juzt man [as in [wo]manifezt]..alzo my referncez to scientific construcktz as thru power/capitalistic-tock/wezternized urgingz...
<datahbleede> ooh, it cood jim, yeah.
<re_workinpr> mez, re that : do you think 'language' is or creates 'reality,' in the sense that changing language can change the world?
<jley> things like load[h]er ??? definitely political :))
<datahbleede> i think the d-tails spell out[re] moore than pure political statementz, butte i cood b wronge....
<datahbleede> ooh yeah jenn, 4 shore
<martha> i think you're right
<martha> perhaps from the more complicated
<martha> untranslateable
<datahbleede> yuppe martha
<martha> to the more simplistic speech
<martha> which requires less attention
<datahbleede> bri...used 2 ponder this in my psych daze..whorfian hypotheziz and all that....
<jley> if the political slant is almost subliminal ... I would think that would ultimately support what bri is saying
<Surd> Stein was not 'overtly' political but it has nonetheless been very liberating.
<re_workinpr> don't know whorf, what's that?
<datahbleede> ...eye think that wurd usage/x-posure can only n-hance change if used in a cur.tain way, though as 2 whether it shapez the wurld ore vice-vurr[sion]sa, dunno realli...
<re_workinpr> surd: what about the text entitled 'patriarchal poetry'? - pretty overt i think...
<jley> what text is that brian??
<Surd> don't know that one, brian.
<re_workinpr> you mean gertrude stein, yes?
<Surd> yes
<datahbleede> x-actly wot u said, the research waz whether words shape learning/modelling/behaviour or the reverse..they used lotsah refurrences to 50 words 4 snowe in ezkimo speak etc...has been disproved i think, knott shore...
<re_workinpr> it's in all the collected stein volumes. it's about... well, patriarchal poetry :)
<datahbleede> welle fancee that!
<datahbleede> :)
<jley> those patriarchs ;)
<datahbleede> pat.tree.architecturalli poeticz?
<re_workinpr> pronomial tendencies you might say... what it means to say 'she' or 'he'
<martha> yeah those pastryfarts
<datahbleede> mite make moore sense that way:)
<datahbleede> shore bri....
* jley wonders about this 'she' thing ... ie. do some people see the changing of pronouns as 'oh, here come the shemales again??' ...
<PbN> some
<re_workinpr> what = shemales?
<datahbleede> the shemale thang?
<Surd> naw, that's in the language now, isn't it?
* jley is curious
<martha> what's in the language?
* re_workinpr is confused
<martha> what language?
<datahbleede> i thinke if u offah bothe [as in bothe pronounz] the reader/interactor getz 2 make the choice N n-terpretation, don't they?
<jley> is the use of female pronouns read as self conscious??
<Surd> i mean it is conventional not to use 'man' etc now
<Surd> for humankind etc
<martha> probably militantly feministic
<datahbleede> ehehh
<PbN> political cracked
<datahbleede> thoze rad femmez
<datahbleede> :)
<datahbleede> [joke]
<jley> hehe femmon a na
<reiner> s_hehe (?)
<datahbleede> izz this the o' humanistic wurdz in a political clothing d-barghc-all?
<re_workinpr> mez - re: before : so you don't really think much of theories that language constitutes behavior/etc.?
<datahbleede> 4 a purrsonall purrspectiff, i use both, make a pointe of hollowz in the language that i pheel doezn't apply, that x-cludes, removes n-clusion in2 the language, but i don't tri 2 browe beat....

June 4/2000
a project of