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Komninos's Cyberpoetry
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| [12:15] |
<dleshem> |
which bastards?
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| [12:15] |
<Surd> |
ehehe right on K.
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| [12:15] |
<mIEKAL> |
there are so many
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| [12:15] |
<dleshem> |
they are everywhere
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| [12:15] |
<elizabeth> |
an individual hasn't much point, in itself...
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| [12:15] |
<aya> |
elizabeth - not sure...after all, the expression 'I' makes no sense without others
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| [12:15] |
<komninos> |
countless number of bastards
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| [12:15] |
<Hiccup> |
i just argued this morning about a word's fundamental relational aspect
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| [12:16] |
<elizabeth> |
I agree with that aya
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| [12:16] |
<Hiccup> |
and couldn't see where, on what level a word gives up meaning and becomes emptied
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| [12:16] |
<komninos> |
very soon the battles will begin for web supremacy
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| [12:17] |
<dleshem> |
I have the power
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| [12:17] |
<Loss> |
the battle is probably over, komninos
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| [12:17] |
<Surd> |
Individual sites, these are the sites I tend to like best on the web, those of individuals.
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| [12:17] |
<komninos> |
and it won't be you and me fighting for supremacy but corporate battles
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| [12:18] |
<Loss> |
anyone (at least here) who buys a computer already has "info" loaded, the same old megalithic places, Disney, etc.
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| [12:18] |
<aya> |
what about this site, now? collective gathering? individuals gathering? where is the difference.
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| [12:18] |
<Hiccup> |
yeah, my pre-load homepage doesn't have a "poetry" site
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| [12:18] |
<Surd> |
aya, between what and what?
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| [12:18] |
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| [12:18] |
<komninos> |
i am a bit skeptical lately, too many dollars turning over
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| [12:19] |
<mIEKAL> |
loss, do you really think the battles are over....I think the net is infinitely hackable
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| [12:19] |
<Loss> |
you have to also think about some of the things we are buying into.
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| [12:19] |
<aya> |
difference between : the collective intelligence on the one hand, and individual in collaboration on the other.
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| [12:19] |
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| [12:19] |
<Loss> |
Think about what (and a lot of poets link to this) amazon.com has done
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| [12:19] |
<Loss> |
to local bookstores.
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| [12:20] |
<Loss> |
A corporation that will make no profit until 2006
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| [12:20] |
<Surd> |
aya, what you read in the transcript are individuals leaping wordly, sometimes connecting, sometimes not, sometimes a thread amongst many, sometimes a voice in the wilderness.
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| [12:20] |
<Loss> |
is running local, community bookstores out of business ...
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| [12:20] |
<dleshem> |
L. hasn't it done similar things to B&N and Borders?
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| [12:20] |
<Loss> |
it's only track record is it gets bigger each year.
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| [12:20] |
<dleshem> |
and weren't they already running the locals out?
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| [12:20] |
<komninos> |
i think aol's achievement is more surprising
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| [12:20] |
<dleshem> |
in what way K?
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| [12:20] |
<Loss> |
Yes, I got into a lot of trouble at a conference once for making a negative comment about Borders.
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| [12:20] |
<elizabeth> |
Borders is OK it's taking over London.
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| [12:21] |
<mIEKAL> |
can anyone submit books to be sold thru amazon.com?
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| [12:21] |
<Hiccup> |
what happened Loss?
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| [12:21] |
<Loss> |
Borders is the "mall" of bookstores. It's not like the public square.
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| [12:22] |
<talanM> |
i think there are a lot of contradictions -- sentiment and futures
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| [12:22] |
<Loss> |
You can't go in there if you are homeless and you can't use certain words if you read in there.
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| [12:22] |
<aya> |
how would ayn rand respond to pierre levy's vision...
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| [12:22] |
<komninos> |
well how long did it take to build the time warner organisation, it's making real profit, it has assets, physical properties, and it has been engulfed by a virtual company
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| [12:23] |
<Loss> |
But the curious think, K. is that it is such a monolith.
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| [12:23] |
<talanM> |
virtual MEDIA company... that's about TW seeing where the future is... and expansion, colonization
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| [12:23] |
<Loss> |
It make movies, reviews them, then says they're the biggest thing that ever happened. All thru its own companies!
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| [12:23] |
<komninos> |
and plenty of people are buying that loss
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| [12:24] |
<Loss> |
There is virtually no free choice in the arts, generally.
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| [12:24] |
<talanM> |
for consumption, you mean..?
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| [12:24] |
<Hiccup> |
how about the web?
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| [12:25] |
<Surd> |
but the job of 'time warner' is not theirs.
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| [12:25] |
<Loss> |
K, do you find the same trend towards consumption art in Aus?
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| [12:26] |
<mIEKAL> |
loss, do you think that it really matters what consumer culture does, ?
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| [12:27] |
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| [12:27] |
<mIEKAL> |
I feel like underground networks have such a longstanding tradition that they are no longer simply reacting to the mainstream
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| [12:27] |
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| [12:27] |
<talanM> |
is there really an underground..?
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| [12:27] |
<mIEKAL> |
but propagate a true culture in its own right, with in its own control
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| [12:27] |
<komninos> |
sure, here our once national telephone company(now two thirds privately owned) telstra bought a large isp recently
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| [12:28] |
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| [12:28] |
<mIEKAL> |
talan, perhaps not, but I use it here in the 80s sense of underground networks.
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| [12:28] |
<komninos> |
and its expanding into buying content providers.
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| [12:28] |
<Loss> |
mIEKAL, I'm reacting to the fact that poets cling to entities such as Borders or amazon.com, giving up the little bit of public space we have left.
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| [12:28] |
<cough> |
this is very similar to 1880's commentary on gilded age monopolies--any tech advance in a capitalist system = abuses which will eventually
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| [12:29] |
<cough> |
be balanced out by reform? i'm not arguing a marxist viewpoint here.
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| [12:29] |
<komninos> |
banks are giving free internet accounts to web-banking customers, so they are becoming internet service providers as well
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| [12:29] |
<talanM> |
the entire system is in motion, transition...
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| [12:29] |
<talanM> |
banking, media... groceries...
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| [12:29] |
<cough> |
yes, talan--but the same wavelike patterns of motion.
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| [12:30] |
<komninos> |
the virtualisation of the economy
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| [12:30] |
<talanM> |
it's all moving at different speeds
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| [12:30] |
<talanM> |
not one big singular transition...
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| [12:30] |
<talanM> |
so there are lurches and earthquakes as the structure transforms...
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| [12:31] |
<talanM> |
thus, the robust nostalgia confused with glorious potential
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| [12:31] |
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| [12:31] |
<komninos> |
we shouldn't get precious about the internet, it was never ours as such and never will be, we are being allowed to play here
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| [12:32] |
<PbN> |
: )
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| [12:32] |
<mIEKAL> |
the technology isn't ours, anyway.
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| [12:32] |
<reiner> |
as long as we buy the equipment :)
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| [12:32] |
<cough> |
who's getting precious? all's i'm saying is that we need to recognize that this is a common pattern of
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| [12:32] |
<komninos> |
so lets play cos as artists that is what we are good at
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| [12:32] |
<cough> |
reaction to tech
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| [12:32] |
<mIEKAL> |
as opposed to theorizing, K?
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| [12:33] |
<Surd> |
Colonizing the search engines would be a nasty thing.
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| [12:33] |
<cough> |
ha
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| [12:33] |
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| [12:33] |
<komninos> |
as opposed to politics
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| [12:33] |
<Surd> |
Lycos is quite commercially oriented.
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| [12:33] |
<cough> |
cough
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| [12:33] |
<Hiccup> |
but the search engines just seem to proliferate, and fill up more and more with advertising garbage
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| [12:34] |
<komninos> |
i think we are the best search engines.
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| [12:34] |
<Loss> |
how so, K?
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| [12:34] |
<Surd> |
Working the search engines is tricky for everyone.
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| [12:34] |
<komninos> |
when i find a site i like i go to their links and usually find a whole heap of sites relevant to me and my work
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| [12:35] |
<PbN> |
K, your work 'Childhood...' ?
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| [12:35] |
<Surd> |
But some do try to maintain some sort of interesting signal to noise ratio.
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| [12:35] |
<Hiccup> |
surd, which ones?
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| [12:36] |
<komninos> |
yes ted
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| [12:36] |
<PbN> |
I love this work -- any more planned?
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| [12:36] |
<Surd> |
altavista, yahoo.
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| [12:36] |
<mIEKAL> |
has anyone used any of the alternate browser, like matthew fuller's project (whose name I forget?
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| [12:36] |
<Hiccup> |
i'd LOVE an alternate browser
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| [12:36] |
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| [12:36] |
<mIEKAL> |
as I remember I couldn't run it on my setup
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| [12:36] |
<komninos> |
i'm too busy teaching these days ted, but pretty soon i'll have some great student work to show
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| [12:37] |
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| [12:37] |
<PbN> |
K, looking forward then
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| [12:37] |
<Surd> |
Can you give us some url's, Komninos?
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| [12:37] |
<reiner> |
how is your work / teaching --- which kind of students ... ?
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| [12:37] |
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| [12:38] |
<Loss> |
yes, k, and do you have syllabi online?
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| [12:38] |
<komninos> |
no, just for writing for the web, a first year introduction to writing html
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| [12:38] |
<Power_BOY> |
ZIJN ER NOD DAMES OP DEZE KANAAL????
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| [12:39] |
<Surd> |
Komninos's Cyberpoetry
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| [12:39] |
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| [12:40] |
<komninos> |
Some of my lectures are here.
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| [12:40] |
<Surd> |
Komninos sings the blues (at mp3.com)
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| [12:40] |
<Loss> |
keine dames
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| [12:40] |
<Hiccup> |
mkelleher, do you believe in a space-time continuum?
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| [12:41] |
<komninos> |
this semester i am teaching writing for multimedia, students propose a script and storyboard, walkthrough of a cd-rom title
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| [12:42] |
<mikelleher> |
Wake-up mikelleherthings can occur IN time too -- I always find it problematic to say "where" here
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| [12:42] |
<mikelleher> |
that was weird -- a statement I made half hour ago appeared
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| [12:42] |
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| [12:42] |
<mIEKAL> |
speak of space time time
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| [12:42] |
<mikelleher> |
I don't know about continuums. It just seems to me that movement...
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| [12:42] |
<Surd> |
the net of time
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| [12:43] |
<PbN> |
Miekal -- must have been losst in a time warp, eh?
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| [12:43] |
<komninos> |
and digital production methods, audio, graphic manipulation, 2d animation etc.
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| [12:43] |
<mikelleher> |
is the primary characteristic of objects on the web...
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| [12:43] |
<mikelleher> |
and that movement is time and not space...
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| [12:43] |
<mIEKAL> |
k are you working with grad or undergrad?
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| [12:43] |
<komninos> |
both
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| [12:43] |
<mikelleher> |
the object in web space never IS anywhere...
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| [12:43] |
<Surd> |
specifically concerned with writing or more broadly in the arts?
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| [12:44] |
<mIEKAL> |
& are these students in a media degree or general students?
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| [12:44] |
<mikelleher> |
except in relation to the "plugged in" subject.
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| [12:44] |
<komninos> |
have an honours student who has just completed a virtual prison in vrml with paintings by Chilean political prisoners displayed on the prison walls
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| [12:45] |
<Surd> |
wow. is this on the web?
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| [12:45] |
<komninos> |
these are arts students. we don't teach design or programming, but i am trying to encourage the artistic/creative use of software packages
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| [12:45] |
<Hiccup> |
all subjects are plugged in, and thus nowhere, it would seem]]]
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| [12:45] |
<mIEKAL> |
so do they have much exposure to the literary side of hypermedia?
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| [12:45] |
<komninos> |
no jim it's not, but it might be soon if he goes on to do a phd
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