: BILL MARSH/ November 21th, 1999
			14:30 - 15:00 [14:29] mIEKAL I'd be so bold as to say a 100 years ago most people read one book at a time & didn't start a new book until they finished the last. echo yes echo and people used to read out loud Surd Look at old pictures of writer's desks with lots of books open... mIEKAL joe yr message was cut off. [14:30] mIEKAL hmmm jfk sorry mIEKAL jim you don't think the times have had an effect on people reading in a different way? mIEKAL or muliple ways... [14:31] Djuna I think it will take time for us who have long known only the printed word to truly be able to expliot the medium for all it's worth Surd I think reading has changed considerably. Surd But, yes, I agree Surd that hypertext echo yes (lots of books), but only after people began reading to themselves, silently in their minds Surd embodies or assists Surd in the way you and I read anyway. Surd I think that the animism of the reading billseye joe, in the essay i was suggesting that this might be necessary for a broader-based poetics, but only if that's the aim -- it's something i think poetry and poetics could use today -- so in that context, yes Surd both in the animation of the word [14:32] Surd (like now) Djuna attention span for one thing - I see there's an article on this in Eastgate recently Surd and the dynamic nature of the connection Surd create process Surd that sets the whole thing Surd moving Surd into hyper reality. echo bill? your opinion on this? [14:33] Surd It is no longer just about something billseye do any of you think we're limited by having a grounding in print-based art? in having "grown up" on books, as it were? Surd it is the thing. echo where do you see it going from here? mIEKAL naw mIEKAL but then I've been into hypermedia for almost 15 years as well. [14:34] billseye ie, picking up on the idea that we have to concentrate hard to see the screen as *not* a page? Surd I think you're right Djuna not at all - I just find I'm having to widen my spheres - always happy to do so! I think knowing one's history is essential to creation, to carry the torch as it were, the human continuum ... Surd Bill jfk i'm reading a lot of pressure in the faces of people in the room with me. they seem to be saying pay some attention to me. so i'm going to sign off now. it's been interesting in a web-like way. bill and jim and everyone, thanks for the show. adios [14:35] Surd but we are helped by other people with their perspectives... echo bye joe, thanks ! mIEKAL take care joe billseye bye joe -- thanks for the chat tompur bye joe *** jfk has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer.) Surd OK, Joe! [14:36] Djuna bye Joe Surd I think Bill has to go too. Surd Bill? billseye yeah, off to a poetry reading with real live people! -- but i hope to have something from it available on the site -- video/audio/still shots, texts... [14:37] tompur Well, I've had fun looking at sunbrella . . . and I think I did get a better picture of what Bill's doing mIEKAL likewise tompur Thanks for doing this echo yes, thank you so much , Bill! Surd Well thanks, Bill, for sharing your work and plans! Djuna okay - enjoy Bill, and thanks Surd I look forward to working with you on the transcript! billseye applause for jim andrews for making it happen -- and all of you for hanging out -- i had a blast and learned a lot Surd And to Bill. [14:38] tompur <Bravo! Bravo! Applause! Applause!> billseye okay, see y'all on the discussion list -- about 20 messages i have to read! Surd We have a strange beasty text to hypermediate the hypermediated with. billseye yes, jim, contact me and let me know what i need to do [14:39] Surd will do *** billseye has quit IRC (QUIT: User exited.) Surd Do you find your reading has changed, Miekal? tompur Well, I have to go type my wife's homework mIEKAL no I don't really think so-- Surd Thanks for joining us, Tom. echo see ya tom, thanks for joining in tompur I'll catch up with you guys later! It was fun! [14:40] tompur bye *** tompur has quit IRC (QUIT: User exited.) echo bye! Surd Good discussion about mp3.com mIEKAL but I do see hypertext as trying to approximate instinctual reading habits. Surd The Art of Memory is a blast, a revelation that way. [14:41] mIEKAL sounds like an interesting book, I love carolyn's posts, I usually have to save them & go thru them twice. Surd Don't you find, though, Surd that you read the process Surd in work now quite differently than before? Djuna exactly Jim? Surd I think, for instance, [14:42] Surd that the debate about mediaboy.net Surd was illustrative that way. Djuna or, at least, that's the possibility/invitation of hypertext I believe [14:43] Surd There's an energy Surd in the animism Surd that can have it's own Surd uh echo funny how an electronic medium should be close to nature in this way Surd meaning echo ironic Surd or mean in different ways... Djuna ie., that the process may become part of the final product - process as message (too) echo art as the process Surd Skip saw rage [14:44] mIEKAL we could identify dynamic processes in reading a book as well. Surd whereas I saw lively process. mIEKAL 'Im not sure what yr getting at jim Surd That's true. Surd I will try to articulate this, Miekal [14:45] Surd I'm not sure I can do it in process right now, though. echo conceptual echo contextual echo :o) echo and the bridge where they meet mIEKAL beth, I've always wondered where yr located-- [14:46] echo why? mIEKAL because yr one of the few people whose posts I read a lot that I don't know where you live... mIEKAL space=space Surd When I look at Web art I look to see what is said to me beyond the word, in the interstices and tones of new media... [14:47] echo i spend winters in school echo summer on the road Surd in the motion and in the emerging language of new media... Surd e motion mIEKAL wouldn't this happen with a music cd or a video as well. [14:48] Surd Also in the integration of media with text... mIEKAL so we are maybe talking about something other than reading mIEKAL do you read sound, read animation--- Djuna mmm, that's nice jim ... Surd I think part of why Jodi is so popular Surd is in the way they [14:49] Surd generate and understand Djuna surface seduction if you ask me Surd the energy of that dynamism. Surd But high energy in a certain way. Surd To grasp that energy is important. Surd To read it. Djuna yes, but it doesn't go very deep. [14:50] Surd It can, though. echo yes. echo it can mIEKAL there's a question, does one read jodi or experience jodi? echo one goes thru a process with jodi echo a trip Djuna I enjoy web work often for a multi faceted engagement it often affords me - levels of being respond - [14:51] echo yes echo your work has these wonderful Djuna that's a matter of (personal) opinion I suppose echo thoughtful layers mIEKAL I particularly enjoy what provokes me yet I don't understand it, want to spend more time with it TO understand Surd I don't mean to site Jodi as definitive, but an example of a new reading... [14:52] mIEKAL as with most of these discussions, we would stall on definitions pretty quickly Djuna do you not think that we sometimes read meaning into a given work (which isn't there) because we Need to? echo i think we always read meaning as it means to us [14:53] echo on a personal level mIEKAL meaning is inevitable, intended meaning being conveyed is another story Surd To use the whole screen and the whole medium in a capacious writing that does not dwell too much on poetry but on the phenomenology of the whole medium is what I try to concentrate on... Surd But I am a writer. Surd And love poetry also. Djuna and so: back to the immemorial question of authorship ... [14:54] echo i like the concept of asking the viewer, inviting them to draw their own conclusions echo on one hand Surd That is a general principle of all art, though. [14:55] Surd To keep it open that way. echo yes [14:59] Surd Have you read The Art of Memory, Miekal? mIEKAL no I haven't jim Surd Lemme see... Surd it's about the ancient mIEKAL I'm reading Imagining Language by steve mccaffery [15:00] Surd art of memory Surd as practiced Surd by the greeks and romans Surd in memorizing speeches Surd and also in memorizing   Surd what is said to you Surd and also in memorizing texts Djuna well, after only 3 hours sleep I'm off to netherland folks ... Surd and the methods that are described   Surd are so much like constructing hypertexts [15:01] mIEKAL bye claire, I should be going soon too-- Surd that it's startling. Surd Yes, me too. mIEKAL I could see that   echo bye claire, thanks for joining   Surd Yes, thanks Claire.   Djuna farewell all, till next time ... Surd I've ordered the McCaffery book. [15:02] Surd Is it good?   mIEKAL well I gotta go too -- jim I think its ok for these discussion to range the way they do.. mIEKAL yes, quintessential   *** Djuna has quit IRC (QUIT: User exited.)   Surd Cool.   Surd Yes, Surd I guess I'm wondering Surd how good a read   Surd they are [15:03] Surd to those who read the transcripts Surd but one can't be too Surd worried about that, I guess.   Surd After all, it is a live show. Surd Not a canned show. mIEKAL in its infancy Surd Yes, as we all get experienced with these   Surd I'm sure the shows will Surd evolve. [15:04] Surd Thank you, Miekal, as always. mIEKAL oooookkkkk bye jim bye beth   echo bye miekal Surd See you!   *** mIEKAL has quit IRC (QUIT: User exited.) Session Close: Sun Nov 21 15:05:20 1999
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