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Session Start: Sun Apr 16 12:09:10 2000
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| [12:22] |
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***Now talking in #defib |
| [12:22] |
<cinader> |
i'm still asking what is the world wide web,
or what can it become? |
| [12:23] |
<Surd> |
Well, it's a hell of a lot poorer this week.
|
| [12:23] |
<Surd> |
With the stock crash. |
| [12:23] |
<cinader> |
don't pay too much attention to that
|
| [12:23] |
<cinader> |
art is generally begging for money no matter
which way the stocks go |
| [12:24] |
<Surd> |
Yes, that's true. |
| [12:24] |
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***tombell has joined #defib
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| [12:24] |
<Surd> |
Hi Tom! |
| [12:24] |
<cinader> |
hi tom |
| [12:25] |
<tombell> |
hi, all |
| [12:27] |
<cinader> |
jim asked about the experience of performance
which is closely related to my general theme at |
| [12:27] |
<cinader> |
the moment |
| [12:27] |
<Surd> |
This is performance as well, yes/ |
| [12:27] |
<cinader> |
for me, my "art" is closely related to
|
| [12:27] |
<cinader> |
my body |
| [12:28] |
<Surd> |
How so? |
| [12:28] |
<cinader> |
so i suppose you could argue that typing is
performing |
| [12:28] |
<cinader> |
the performance of my writing is integral to
my work |
| [12:29] |
<cinader> |
intonation, phrasing, rhythm, rhyme, expression,
etc |
| [12:29] |
<Surd> |
Yes, I liked the way you and your band combine
poetry and music... |
| [12:29] |
<cinader> |
thank you |
| [12:29] |
<cinader> |
i have also done quite a bit of storytelling
|
| [12:29] |
<Surd> |
In readings, you mean? |
| [12:29] |
<cinader> |
for audiences of all sizes and ages |
| [12:30] |
<cinader> |
well, readings, festivals, jazz clubs, libraries,
schools, hospitals... |
| [12:30] |
<Surd> |
I'm interested in the difference between the
performance and the page... |
| [12:31] |
<tombell> |
can you expand on the use of the body, martha.
I feel i use the body to 'gesture in my visuals |
| [12:32] |
<cinader> |
yes tom |
| [12:33] |
<cinader> |
first of all there is the discipline of my body,
or training |
| [12:33] |
<cinader> |
deep breathing, vocal techniques, general health
and vitality |
| [12:34] |
<cinader> |
then there is the use of the body as a vessel
during a performance or while practicing |
| [12:34] |
<cinader> |
when you speak of visuals i'm not sure if you
mean digital visuals or physical ones |
| [12:35] |
<cinader> |
at any rate, even while i sing praises of the
web |
| [12:35] |
<cinader> |
i also rebel against the many hours my body
is held hostage at my computer |
| [12:35] |
<tombell> |
vessal? as in cauldron or transmitter?
|
| [12:36] |
<cinader> |
yes, i like either one of those |
| [12:37] |
<tombell> |
that was a choice question but i can see they
both apply |
| [12:37] |
<Surd> |
Is your writing for the page different from
your writing for live performance? |
| [12:37] |
<cinader> |
probably |
| [12:38] |
<cinader> |
sometimes i read things and wish i could change
them because they have changed |
| [12:38] |
<cinader> |
after repeated performances |
| [12:38] |
<tombell> |
i've found a difference in work for the net
and for print |
| [12:39] |
<cinader> |
yes i agree, the net needs to be broken up into
parts |
| [12:39] |
<tombell> |
maybe we should wait for others? |
| [12:39] |
<cinader> |
and presented with the possibility for participation
|
| [12:39] |
<cinader> |
we can wait, |
| [12:40] |
<Surd> |
I like the possibility the web presents of doing
all these things in the same piece. |
| [12:40] |
<cinader> |
anxious to stick to my topic though, as i would
like to explore it in depth |
| [12:40] |
<cinader> |
but what is the web? |
| [12:40] |
<cinader> |
i ask again |
| [12:41] |
<cinader> |
i don't want to accept that it is this network
we are all accepting too quickly |
| [12:41] |
<cinader> |
sorry to be redundant |
| [12:41] |
<Surd> |
It carries signals of whatever can be digitized
however they can be interpreted between me and you. |
| [12:42] |
<cinader> |
that's a good start |
| [12:42] |
<cinader> |
let me add |
| [12:42] |
<cinader> |
it can be a combination of many mediums
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| [12:43] |
<cinader> |
and could be accessable (spelling?) to everyone
|
| [12:43] |
<Surd> |
Mediums can be viewed as different 'protocols'
in which info is encoded. |
| [12:43] |
<Surd> |
A picture and a sound are just streams of bits.
|
| [12:43] |
<Surd> |
It's the protocol that distinguishes them.
|
| [12:45] |
<cinader> |
for me, what is exciting is streams of bits
|
| [12:45] |
<cinader> |
produced organically |
| [12:45] |
<cinader> |
streaming live from one point to another
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| [12:45] |
<cinader> |
and creating synergy between those two points
|
| [12:46] |
<cinader> |
experienced on BOTH ends |
| [12:46] |
<Surd> |
Yes, like now |
| [12:46] |
<Surd> |
Your bits are wriggling |
| [12:46] |
<Surd> |
My bits are wriggling |
| [12:46] |
<Surd> |
Wriggling text bits |
| [12:47] |
<Surd> |
Hard to capture that in the transcript
|
| [12:47] |
<cinader> |
chuckle, yes |
| [12:47] |
<cinader> |
a different experience from reading the transcript
|
| [12:47] |
<Surd> |
Have you thought of setting up a radio station
on the Net, Martha? |
| [12:47] |
<cinader> |
now if only we could get to know a few more
people in africa |
| [12:48] |
<cinader> |
even some of the ones without electricity in
their homes |
| [12:48] |
<cinader> |
yes, i have thought of having Planet AUTHORity
community radio |
| [12:48] |
<cinader> |
and have very recently (as in yesterday) come
to the conclusion that |
| [12:48] |
<cinader> |
i must put PA in archive mode so that i can
put my energies |
| [12:49] |
<cinader> |
into it's behind the scenes growth for a couple
months |
| [12:49] |
<Surd> |
Your interest in the live and in broadcast suggests
you might gravitate that way, broadcast.com or other broadcast enterprises
or on your own or with e-poets and other poets doing that, well
you have been doing that... |
| [12:49] |
<cinader> |
well yes, i have been doing some of that
|
| [12:49] |
<Surd> |
There is one person on the list from Africa
but have never heard from him/her... |
| [12:49] |
<cinader> |
i have also done several radio dramas...
|
| [12:50] |
<cinader> |
i brought up africa in context with the recent
thread on this list |
| [12:50] |
<cinader> |
my point is that the "infrastructure" of personal
computers is limited |
| [12:50] |
<Surd> |
Yes, that thread eddies around many issues
|
| [12:50] |
<cinader> |
and i think egotistical |
| [12:51] |
<cinader> |
and disembodies |
| [12:51] |
<cinader> |
i keep using that word |
| [12:51] |
<tombell> |
i feel a lack in not having audio capability
- i'm sure those in Africa feel lots of lacks/ |
| [12:51] |
<cinader> |
but i am reaching for a more communal experience
|
| [12:52] |
<Surd> |
True, it disembodies, but then so does any medium
of communication, to some extent, doesn't it? |
| [12:52] |
<cinader> |
i wish you could walk to your public park tom,
and talk to someone in africa on a giant video |
| [12:52] |
<cinader> |
screen |
| [12:52] |
<cinader> |
maybe you would have to use sign language....
|
| [12:53] |
<cinader> |
any medium of communication? |
| [12:53] |
<cinader> |
i suppose any medium other than singing or speaking
etc |
| [12:54] |
<Surd> |
Any medium where the communication is not live
and face to face in the moment, more or less unmediated.
|
| [12:54] |
<cinader> |
yes |
| [12:54] |
<cinader> |
in radio, it's all about the voice |
| [12:54] |
<cinader> |
on television it's subtlety of expression
|
| [12:55] |
<Surd> |
Yes, in radio the voice, disembodied.
|
| [12:55] |
<cinader> |
but radio is also probably the most accessable
medium in the world |
| [12:56] |
<Surd> |
Yes, I remember making a radio when I was a
kid from a kit. |
| [12:56] |
<Surd> |
Radio is the one and only in many places.
|
| [12:56] |
<tombell> |
even in person communication can be disembodied
or masked |
| [12:56] |
<cinader> |
that's true too |
| [12:56] |
<tombell> |
but in general radio seems the most authentic
|
| [12:56] |
<Surd> |
Yes, Tom's a psychologist... 8-) |
| [12:57] |
<cinader> |
i'm not arguing against technology, or favoring
any medium |
| [12:57] |
<cinader> |
only asking the question |
| [12:57] |
<cinader> |
how can we create something that everyone can
have access to? |
| [12:57] |
<Surd> |
The question of 'what's authentic'? |
| [12:58] |
<cinader> |
how, also can we create experiences that even
|
| [12:58] |
<cinader> |
though using some sort of technology
|
| [12:58] |
<cinader> |
can still involve several senses and invoke
some of |
| [12:58] |
<cinader> |
the magic of theater |
| [12:59] |
<cinader> |
? |
| [12:59] |
<Surd> |
The article by Harpold suggests that dreams
of a truly world wide communication system are dysfunctional.
|
| [12:59] |
<cinader> |
dysfunctional? |
| [13:00] |
<cinader> |
people told nicola tesla the same thing about
radio |
| [13:00] |
<Surd> |
And the article suggests that the rhetoric around
that dream masks a disregard for the reality of the situation, that
it is not possible now or in the foreseeable future. |
| [13:00] |
<cinader> |
haven't the read the article |
| [13:00] |
<cinader> |
but i don't like to talk about what's not possible
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| [13:01] |
<cinader> |
i prefer to push for what i believe is possible
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