[x] Checking In

Jim Andrews jim at vispo.com
Thu Mar 29 16:17:08 CDT 2018


Thanks very much, Rob. It sounds like you have looked into copyright in 
Canada rather well--like you look into whatever you look into. I'll pick 
up a copy of Murray and Troscow.

ja


On 3/29/2018 2:07 PM, Rob Myers wrote:
> The Prince case was fascinating but it was in the US, so it doesn't 
> set a precedent for Canada.
>
> There are two problems you'll encounter researching this area.
>
> 1. Most resources are for the US, and so cover Fair Use rather than 
> Fair Dealing, and concentrate on US legal precedents.
>
> 2. Most resources that are for Canada have been written by people who 
> want to enforce copyright increasingly strongly rather than get 
> creative with Fair Dealing.
>
> All that said, if your library has a copy of "Canadian Copyright - A 
> Citizen's Guide" by Murray & Trosow that's a good resource that looks 
> at the relevant law in a balanced way.
>
> - Rob.
>
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2018, at 1:40 PM, Jim Andrews wrote:
>>
>> Hi Deanne,
>>
>> Adeena's friend Bob Kasher cited the Richard Prince case
>> ( 
>> https://www.artinamericamagazine.com/news-features/news/richard-prince-wins-major-victory-in-landmark-copyright-suit/ 
>> )
>> in his claim that "you have no copyright concerns (see above link). 
>> Prince vs. Rastafarian set the copyright precedent here for all 
>> imagery use. As long as you are distorting, collaging it etc. you own 
>> it. It doesn't matter where it came from."
>>
>> If somebody used my work in the way I've used this work, I'd be OK 
>> with it as long as they didn't make a significant sum from it. If 
>> they did that, I'd want some recompense.
>>
>> So I'm still pretty confused about the legality.
>>
>> ja
>>
>>
>> On 3/29/2018 1:19 PM, Deanne Achong | Dia Media wrote:
>>> Hi Jim,
>>>
>>> Great question.
>>> Miles has covered the “legalese” angle very well:)
>>>
>>> I’ve used a lot of “found images” - in general I stay within stuff 
>>> that is at least 50 years old, which doesn’t always cover copyright 
>>> (thanks to that pesky Mickey Mouse) but if I found it via 
>>> archive.org <http://archive.org> for example, it usually does:)
>>>
>>> My 2 cents would be this:
>>>
>>> 1. Richard Prince did that piece where he used Instagram images and 
>>> then sold them for a pretty penny. This is totally kosher and almost 
>>> normal for his practice and all those other academic arguments . I 
>>> think in general the non-art public was quite insulted and hurt. 
>>> (which is a funny word to use, but people feel attached to their 
>>> images, whether or not they “should”.) Also yup, maybe it was just a 
>>> strategy to re-raise his profile.
>>>
>>> 2. When I used to teach, I would ask students, how would you feel if 
>>> someone took your artwork and used it as you are planning to do? If 
>>> the answer if “outraged” or any variation thereof, then the answer 
>>> about using it clear. At least from an ethical perspective.
>>>
>>> 3. Whoops that’s 3 cents:) - anything on the internet appears in a 
>>> database that is probably up for grabs. I’ve seem some of my 
>>> photographs used to sell things on Craigslist. Slightly amusing, 
>>> minor ruffling of feathers, and a general shrugging of my shoulders.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Deanne
>>>
>>>
>>> Deanne Achong
>>> GoodyBank
>>> Digital Strategy + Design Studio
>>> https://goodybank.com
>>> 604-708-4185
>>>
>>> +> https://www.deanneachong.com - ART
>>> ++>> https://www.instagram.com/piquette/
>>>
>>>> On Mar 29, 2018, at 1:02 PM, Jim Andrews <jim at vispo.com 
>>>> <mailto:jim at vispo.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Right. So it's OK as long as it's completely inconsequential.
>>>>
>>>> ja
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/29/2018 12:58 PM, Miles Thorogood wrote:
>>>>> That sounds about the gist of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 29, 2018, 12:51 PM Jim Andrews <jim at vispo.com 
>>>>> <mailto:jim at vispo.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Thanks, Miles. My reading of the below is that it implies
>>>>>     http://vispo.com/aleph3/an.html?d=Adeena%20Karasick%201
>>>>>     is OK as long as no money is involved and it doesn't go viral.
>>>>>     As soon as it becomes popular or somebody wants to buy a copy
>>>>>     of Aleph Null that contains Checking In, all bets are off.
>>>>>
>>>>>     ja
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     On 3/29/2018 12:32 PM, Miles Thorogood wrote:
>>>>>>     Hi Jim,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     I'm not a legal expert so don't consider this legal advice.
>>>>>>     At one point I was asking a similar question regarding what
>>>>>>     my students are*allowed* to do in terms of using digital
>>>>>>     assets in their work. The UBCO library gave us some useful
>>>>>>     resources that I will share with you here. I'll skip the
>>>>>>     content of public domain images and obtain permissions and
>>>>>>     jump straight to piece on fair dealing and the remix exceptions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     *Fair dealing exception*
>>>>>>     Fair dealing is a user right contained in the Copyright Act
>>>>>>     that allows you to copy from a copyrighted work, without the
>>>>>>     copyright owner's permission, if:
>>>>>>     1. The copy is for the purposes of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       * Research
>>>>>>       * Private Study
>>>>>>       * Education
>>>>>>       * Criticism or Review
>>>>>>       * Parody or Satire
>>>>>>       * News reporting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     2. The use is “fair”…
>>>>>>     Dealing can be considered fair based on:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     *Non-Commercial User-Generated Content Exception*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       * AKA the “Mash-Up Exception”
>>>>>>       * Allows individuals to use a published work to create and
>>>>>>         communicate a new work, as long as:
>>>>>>       * the purpose is strictly non-commercial;
>>>>>>       * you use a legal copy of the original work;
>>>>>>       * you identify the author and source of the original work; and
>>>>>>       * the new work does not adversely impact the copyright
>>>>>>         owner of the original.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     I hope some of this is useful for your cause.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Miles
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 11:24 AM, Jim Andrews <jim at vispo.com
>>>>>>     <mailto:jim at vispo.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         I'm unsure of the legality of a piece that I've created
>>>>>>         with the poet Adeena Karasick. I wonder if those in the
>>>>>>         know on legal use of images might tell me what you think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         The piece is at
>>>>>>         http://vispo.com/aleph3/an.html?d=Adeena%20Karasick%201
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Best experienced on a desktop/laptop machine, though it
>>>>>>         runs OK on mobile devices. Click the aleph at top left to
>>>>>>         toggle display of the controls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         The text is Adeena's. She owns it for sure. No problem
>>>>>>         there. It's the text of her new book Checking In coming
>>>>>>         out soon from Talonbooks in Vancouver. And the
>>>>>>         programming is mine. The program the piece is in is one I
>>>>>>         wrote called Aleph Null 3.0.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         The issue is the images in the background and the images
>>>>>>         used to fill the text.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Adeena selected 208 images from the net and from her own
>>>>>>         images for me to use in this piece. She didn't get them
>>>>>>         by license in google image search. She just picked the
>>>>>>         most relevant images for the text of the project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         She and a friend of hers think this is legal use of these
>>>>>>         images. I'm not so sure. What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         I really like the piece itself. And Adeena's text is
>>>>>>         terrific. But I am quite unsure about the legalities of
>>>>>>         image use. And it isn't the 90's anymore. Things are
>>>>>>         changing. Google recently changed their image search so
>>>>>>         that you have to visit the site on which the image is
>>>>>>         located before you can save it. And of course there's the
>>>>>>         whole Facebook data issue. People are re-examining
>>>>>>         ownership of digitized/digital stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         ja
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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