|
| |
|
|
| [12:30] |
<Surd> |
That's a question that Sue and Mez might be interested
in too. |
| [12:31] |
<Sue> |
I don't think of myself as gendered - I try to
avoid it ! |
| [12:31] |
<Surd> |
Yes. I see that, Claire. |
| [12:31] |
<Sue> |
but i am very interested in the notion of the
artist as maker |
| [12:32] |
<Sue> |
and jen asked me to write about my first novel
Correspondence which came out in 92 |
| [12:32] |
<mez> |
in E W L, i suppoze i wanted to create a notion
of creatin emotiona & comp allusions within a vis/textual context
that equally representz both, but highlights the contradictionz
therein...
![LOAD [h]er by Mez](screenshots/mezzie.gif)
|
| [12:32] |
<Djuna> |
Beatrice, named after Dante's Bea, the ultimate muse, is an assemblage
of many of the women, and honorary women who've informed my life,
intellect, heart - being |
| [12:32] |
<mez> |
sue>>yuppe about the non-gendering percept.eye.on..
|
| [12:32] |
<Sue> |
she asked me just at a time when i had decided
to give up writing fiction - for a while at least - so it was great
to |
| [12:32] |
<jley> |
and as you can see from just these three pieces
... they all illustrate what we have come to realize about Women
and Tech ... there is no 'uber' woman |
| [12:33] |
<jley> |
there is no one way to view gender or women and
tech |
| [12:33] |
<Sue> |
get the chance to go back to my first, probably
most successful novel, and re-comment on it
|
| [12:33] |
<cguertin> |
the frames work well for this kind of dialogue
with yourself, your work, sue. |
| [12:34] |
<Sue> |
thanks carolyn - fact is, you couldn't really
do that on paper |
| [12:34] |
<Surd> |
Does this issue make further issues on work solely
by women less necessary? |
| [12:34] |
<cguertin> |
it would take an entirely different form if you
did do it on paper. |
| [12:34] |
<cguertin> |
when women start getting equal time...
|
| [12:35] |
<cguertin> |
elsewhere |
| [12:35] |
<margie> |
Ah, Jim, interesting question. In the old days,
when women first started getting in print, the same question--and
now |
| [12:35] |
<reiner> |
do they not ? |
| [12:35] |
<Djuna> |
hello reiner |
| [12:35] |
|
*jley is enjoying listening :) |
| [12:35] |
<reiner> |
hi ;) |
| [12:36] |
<cguertin> |
hence the need for Assemblage, the Women and
Technology issue of Riding the Meridian, Judy Malloy's panel at
the Invencao Symposium, reiner. |
| [12:36] |
<margie> |
interesting to note how few women are being anthologized in print,
after all the great writing of the 70's and 80's |
| [12:36] |
<Sue> |
this is an ideal chance for me to plug my book!
|
| [12:36] |
<mez> |
;) |
| [12:36] |
<Djuna> |
the floor is yours sue: |
| [12:37] |
<Sue> |
my collection of contemp stories by women - wild
women :) |
| [12:37] |
<Surd> |
Howso, Sue? |
| [12:37] |
|
*Sue plug plug |
| [12:37] |
|
*mez is teleprezencing to the Dinner Party at the same time...
|
| [12:37] |
<Sue> |
just wanted to point out it exists, in the context
of this discussion |
| [12:37] |
<Surd> |
Cool. |
| [12:37] |
<jley> |
yay Sue |
| [12:37] |
<Djuna> |
details please |
| [12:37] |
<reiner> |
..... women are very present on the net (in my
view) |
| [12:38] |
<jley> |
Loss what do you think? |
| [12:38] |
<Sue> |
it's called Wild
Women |
| [12:38] |
<cguertin> |
yes, but you're an honourary woman, reiner
|
| [12:38] |
<jley> |
vis a vis EPC |
| [12:38] |
<Sue> |
scuse me - what is EPC? |
| [12:38] |
<Surd> |
Well, you know, I find that web pubs are very
open to the work i do with dhtml and director etc but are less open
to the graphic+text work I do, and I wonder how this relates, or
if it does? |
| [12:38] |
<Loss> |
Electronic Poetry Center |
| [12:38] |
<jley> |
the Electronic Poetry Center at SUNY Buffalo
|
| [12:38] |
|
*mez is curiouz about being an "honourary" wom.anne, az she feelz
this way herr.self sumtimez;) |
| [12:38] |
<Sue> |
thanks |
| [12:39] |
|
*Sue agrees with mez on that one |
| [12:39] |
<cguertin> |
it's an in-joke from webartery and dac.
|
| [12:39] |
<Loss> |
I don't think women are as present on the Net
as they should be! |
| [12:39] |
<Djuna> |
lol!:) |
| [12:39] |
<cguertin> |
Talan was the first when he wrote a commentary
for the Dinner Party |
| [12:39] |
<jley> |
Talan became our first honorary woman
|
| [12:39] |
<cguertin> |
Reiner's work is in Assemblage with Christy Sheffield Sanford
|
| [12:39] |
<jley> |
there was a whole table of us at DAC ... and
Talan |
| [12:39] |
<Sue> |
will there be honorary men in the next one? can
i be one? |
| [12:40] |
<Sue> |
yes i enjoyed that dinner! |
| [12:40] |
<margie> |
ah, many women are honorary men |
| [12:40] |
<Loss> |
The DAC dinner, was that the dinner where Coover
spoke? Or was there a special event? |
| [12:40] |
<jley> |
Loss it's interesting to hear you say that about
women |
| [12:40] |
<Sue> |
yes the coover dinner |
| [12:40] |
<margie> |
yes, that was the one! |
| [12:40] |
<jley> |
that was the coover speaking dinner, yes
|
| [12:41] |
<jley> |
Where we all passed notes ;) |
| [12:41] |
<Surd> |
I think that there is an impression amongst many
that innovative work is highly langwidgetical... |
| [12:41] |
|
*Sue smiles |
| [12:41] |
<cguertin> |
and kicked each other under the table
|
| [12:41] |
<margie> |
in which we became a bunch of Mountebanks and
Shyters, we web smoothies |
| [12:41] |
|
*Sue laughs at margie |
| [12:41] |
<Surd> |
That innovation in Web work is strongly deviced...
|
| [12:41] |
<cguertin> |
and muttered under our breath |
| [12:41] |
<jley> |
and cooked up devilish ways of presenting our
image laden web work |
| [12:41] |
|
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| [12:42] |
<cguertin> |
which jennifer did in her article at Pif |
| [12:42] |
<Sue> |
DEviced? interesting - can you explain more? |
| [12:43] |
<Djuna> |
the 'ooh' of the tech making up for lack of content
|
| [12:43] |
<Sue> |
i have to say i am sitting here smiling
|
| [12:43] |
<Surd> |
I think that a lot of editors have a narrow notion
of innovation that stresses the coding aspect, for one thing.
|
| [12:43] |
|
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| [12:43] |
<Surd> |
The language machine aspect. |
| [12:43] |
<cguertin> |
or print conventions, like coover does
|
| [12:43] |
<jley> |
well ... I do think there is some tech for the
sake of tech going on |
| [12:43] |
<jley> |
but we have to go through a period of learning
our tech/when/how to use it |
| [12:43] |
<Surd> |
The making of language machines. |
| [12:44] |
<Loss> |
Yes, I think the tech for tech sake causes some
confusion about what's up. |
| [12:44] |
<Sue> |
i was discussing this with mark amerika last
week |
| [12:44] |
<cguertin> |
talking the language of machines and the machineries
of language... |
| [12:44] |
<Sue> |
we are planning our next competition |
| [12:44] |
<jley> |
and ... once you've clicked to get somewhere
... this sets up expectations as to pacing |
| [12:44] |
<Sue> |
and it will NOT be called a hypertext comp
|
| [12:44] |
<Surd> |
I saw a lot of great work with technology at
Meridian and, correct me if I'm wrong, but not so much device.
|
| [12:44] |
<margie> |
Loss is right about some showiness, but we might
have to go thru e.uberance to get to style |
| [12:45] |
<margie> |
sue, what will it be called |
| [12:45] |
<jley> |
right now ... the tech is so new it's hard for
it not to seem self-conscious |
| [12:45] |
<Djuna> |
there's a lot of content there - Jen's choices
assure it:) |
| [12:45] |
<Sue> |
we don;'t know yet! but not hypertext - far too
narrow |
| [12:45] |
|
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| [12:45] |
|
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| [12:45] |
<Surd> |
The device in The
Intruder was considerable but a different and ironic approach
to device. |
| [12:46] |
<margie> |
sue, please let us all know about it in advance!
|
| [12:46] |
<cguertin> |
it seems that only writers called hypertext that--others
call it web.art, new media arts, theory, art... |
| [12:46] |
<Sue> |
but of course margie |
| [12:46] |
|
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| [12:46] |
<Surd> |
Perhaps we can do intros now, sorry, delayed:
|
| [12:46] |
<jley> |
well, Ted Nelson didn't make that distinction
re: image and text |
| [12:46] |
<Surd> |
Jim Andrews |
| [12:47] |
<cguertin> |
mez is a language bender of voluminous proportions
|
| [12:47] |
<Loss> |
Yes, I'd like intros. J, can you tell me their
names, too? |
| [12:47] |
<Djuna> |
to say the least! |
| [12:47] |
<jley> |
Mez uses her nick as her work name |
| [12:51] |
<Loss> |
J, what was the seminar where you all met?
|
| [12:52] |
<jley> |
Loss, some of us met (or I met some of these
women) through Christy's online workshop at trAce last spring
|
| [12:52] |
|
***Sue has quit IRC (QUIT: User exited) |
| [12:53] |
<jley> |
but I think DAC was the real turning point ...
and webartery too |
| [12:53] |
<cguertin> |
most of us knew each other though, through e-mail,
prior to dac |
| [12:53] |
<cguertin> |
dac crystalized us into a community |
| [12:53] |
<cguertin> |
formed friendships |
| [12:54] |
<cguertin> |
new facets and focuses on our work |
| [12:54] |
<Loss> |
Webartery as a discussion list? |
| [12:54] |
<Djuna> |
i feel like an outsider [wasn't there];(
|
| [12:54] |
<jley> |
that's how I met Claire |
| [12:54] |
<jley> |
and I guess this continues to be the point of
the net ... there are always people doing amazing work that we're
just finding out about |
| [12:54] |
<Djuna> |
webartery definitely - Jim has brought a lot of wondrous folks together
|
| [12:54] |
<margie> |
claire, you aren't now |
| [12:54] |
<jley> |
it's very difficult to think you've been definitive
here |
| [12:55] |
<jley> |
it's a challenge ... and an opportunity
|
| [12:55] |
<Djuna> |
:) |
| [12:55] |
<Surd> |
Webartery is a conduit, primarily. |
| [12:55] |
<cguertin> |
webartery spans the 'old guard' of the hypertext world and the new
media arts. it's a wonderful thinktank |
| [12:55] |
<geniwate> |
so how long has webartery been going?
|
| [12:55] |
<Surd> |
About a year. |
| [12:56] |
<margie> |
Jim, can new folks join? |
| [12:56] |
<Surd> |
Definitely, margie. |
| [12:56] |
<jley> |
kind of points up what is happening with lit/arts
yes?? this amazing amount of cross fertilization |
| [12:56] |
<Djuna> |
please do margie! |
| [12:56] |
<jley> |
yes Margie do |
| [12:56] |
<Surd> |
Yes, multiplicity, as you said, Jen, is crucial
to the art. |
| [12:56] |
<geniwate> |
i've just joined and the participants are very
friendly and interesting |
| [12:57] |
<cguertin> |
this issue of Riding the Meridian really highlights
that. It is a dialogue across borders and boundaries. |
| [12:57] |
<Surd> |
The art is synthetic of many things...
|
| [12:57] |
<jley> |
that's what I hoped to do Carolyn :) glad it
worked for you |
| [12:58] |
<TB> |
i couldn't connect earlier? mb my server?
|
| [12:58] |
<cguertin> |
the fact that it includes multiple genres, poetry,
fiction, hypertext, theory (and all of the above) is a focus of
its strength. |
| [12:58] |
<Surd> |
Yes, that was the fascinating thing to me.
|
| [12:59] |
<TB> |
webartery has something for all |
| [12:59] |
<Djuna> |
deleuze would be proud |
| [12:59] |
<cguertin> |
look at the theory even: it turns up under literature
as often as elsewhere. |
| [12:59] |
<Surd> |
The diversity cutting along those lines...
|
| [12:59] |
<cguertin> |
bending these gen(d)res |
| [12:59] |
<Djuna> |
multiple strata, intensities ... |
| [12:59] |
<geniwate> |
and cybervertigo |
| [13:00] |
<TB> |
is webartery a rhizome:) |
| [13:00] |
<cguertin> |
rhizomes, roots spreading laterally... |
| [13:02] |
<Djuna> |
subject anyone? |
| [13:02] |
<cguertin> |
women's hypertext? |
| [13:02] |
<Surd> |
How would a men's issue play? |
| [13:02] |
<cguertin> |
hey! |
