|
| |
|
|
| [13:02] |
<Djuna> |
do you think it can be separated as a genre from
men's? |
| [13:03] |
<jley> |
I don't
think a men's issue would play ... |
| [13:03] |
<cguertin> |
no,
there are blendings |
| [13:03] |
<Surd> |
I mean,
is it necessary? |
| [13:03] |
<cguertin> |
but i
think that women are speaking distinctly... |
| [13:03] |
<margie> |
what?
lost in ahspace--aren't we going to do men in RM? |
| [13:03] |
<jley> |
if the
work had to do with gender perhaps Jim |
| [13:03] |
<cguertin> |
take Diana Reed Slattery's Glide
for instance
|
| [13:04] |
<cguertin> |
her new
spatial language, where you navigate the labyrinth of her
alphabet |
| [13:04] |
<Surd> |
What is
the URL for that, Carolyn? |
| [13:04] |
<cguertin> |
it's
very much a woman's notion of space and an embodied interaction with
language |
| [13:04] |
<jley> |
margie
... yes we are ... I think Jim meant do we need a Men and
Tech |
| [13:05] |
<cguertin> |
* cguertin feels like she's talking to herself |
| [13:05] |
<Surd> |
No, I'm listening, Carolyn. |
| [13:05] |
<Djuna> |
why
not? it would be an interesting juxtaposition |
| [13:05] |
<jley> |
I am
too Carolyn just about ten lines behind |
| [13:06] |
<cguertin> |
margie
too (in her guise as m.d. coverley) also plays with language, the
language of string |
| [13:06] |
<cguertin> |
in
Califia |
| [13:06] |
<PbN> |
Carolyn, you have my attention, too
|
| [13:06] |
<cguertin> |
and
adrianne wortzel creates a lacan alphabet |
| [13:06] |
<cguertin> |
oop,
that should be lacanian alphabet |
| [13:06] |
<geniwate> |
The Wales Conference: it's
about the nexus between science, technology and art |
| [13:06] |
<Djuna> |
as in Jacques? |
| [13:06] |
<tb> |
i think
things have moved beyond gender. What about people and
'play'? |
| [13:07] |
<PbN> |
here here, TB |
| [13:07] |
<Surd> |
Well,
looking at Meridian, it's an amazing achievement, I think, and I can
see the need for it. |
| [13:07] |
<PbN> |
C...
lacanian alphabet? |
| [13:07] |
<jley> |
I think
one thing that continues to intrigue me is the place where pre-web
work in concrete poetry, forms like that ... rubs up against what we
are doing on the net |
| [13:08] |
<cguertin> |
check
it out. |
| [13:08] |
<Surd> |
But I'm
not sure an issue on men's work would be of similar
consequence. |
| [13:08] |
<cguertin> |
it is a
very visual world we are exploring |
| [13:08] |
<jley> |
and the
place where art/image rubs up against language/image |
| [13:08] |
<margie> |
oh, but
as Carolyn points out, there are lots of ways to re-form the
language |
| [13:08] |
<cguertin> |
vispo
has more to do with what we are doing than with coover's literary
theory, for one... |
| [13:09] |
<jley> |
well I
still see that Golden Age premise as locked to the tech then
available |
| [13:09] |
<cguertin> |
deena
larsen tried to quilt hypertext books originally, didn't she?
|
| [13:09] |
<TB> |
jley,
i'm very interested in what you're talking about! |
| [13:10] |
<margie> |
Jim,
you may be right--but the whole idea of webwork is still a
not-count, no count thing--men working in this field are in the
vanguard, as well
|
| [13:10] |
<jley> |
TB ... once I've recovered from the two months
of coding .... we can talk about that more |
| [13:10] |
<TB> |
great |
| [13:10] |
<cguertin> |
women's
works don't generally get reviewed on the web, even though we are
reading them. |
| [13:10] |
<Djuna> |
I've
noticed that ... |
| [13:10] |
<Surd> |
Neither
do men's, though, Carolyn. |
| [13:11] |
<Loss> |
Geni,
thanks for the url. It worked here. |
| [13:11] |
<cguertin> |
look at michael joyce's work as touchstone (no
disparagement on Michael), but he gets cited so frequently. how
often does mez or christy or margie? |
| [13:11] |
<jley> |
and
then there's the 'we' ... ie ... who is reading hypertext/hypermedia
who isn't doing the work? |
| [13:11] |
<jley> |
Do we
have an audience? |
| [13:11] |
<Djuna> |
a lot
more - look at the wired gallery for instance |
| [13:11] |
<Surd> |
There
is very little reviewing of any web work. |
| [13:11] |
<geniwate> |
good. I
think they're expecting about 200 people |
| [13:11] |
<Loss> |
I think
we'd have to look at it as a mixed audience! |
| [13:11] |
<Loss> |
Otherwise it will be small, J. |
| [13:11] |
<cguertin> |
who
reads experimental vispo or langpo except poets? |
| [13:11] |
<Djuna> |
and
mark america |
| [13:11] |
<Djuna> |
ka |
| [13:12] |
<cguertin> |
the
Electronic Book Review and other hypertext journals do publish
reviews. |
| [13:12] |
<PbN> |
Good q,
Carolyn... often wonder myself... |
| [13:12] |
<cguertin> |
theory
gets written. |
| [13:12] |
<jley> |
do they
really not review women that much Carolyn? |
| [13:12] |
<cguertin> |
there
are forums for reviews. |
| [13:12] |
<margie> |
it took
a while before Michael got cited much--but you don't see the other
women of Coover's Golden Age cited much at all, that was one reason
why I was eager to include them in the Dinner Party |
| [13:12] |
<Surd> |
Well I
get about 70 visitors a day... my impression is that the audience is
diverse. |
| [13:12] |
<jley> |
perhaps
we all need to do more reviewing and article writing |
| [13:13] |
<cguertin> |
pbn,
these are writerly forums, aren't they? To evoke Roland
Barthes. |
| [13:13] |
<cguertin> |
Carolyn
Guyer and J. Yellowlees Douglas (whose work made the e-Norton) do,
but they are exceptions. |
| [13:14] |
<cguertin> |
women
writers zine is looking for reviews... |
| [13:14] |
<Surd> |
Reviews
of what, Carolyn? |
| [13:14] |
<margie> |
Carolyn, you are so right--but yes,
exceptions. |
| [13:14] |
<cguertin> |
hypertext by women |
| [13:14] |
<cguertin> |
reviews, like articles, give legitimacy (sad to
say), margie. |
| [13:14] |
<Surd> |
What is
the URL for that? |
| [13:14] |
<jley> |
I think
Pif is looking for more hypertext commentary and reviewers
too |
| [13:15] |
<cguertin> |
make
these forms a legitimate field of study--which therefore means that
they survive. |
| [13:15] |
<jley> |
they
have a large and diverse (not just lit) audience |
| [13:15] |
<TB> |
Surd, I
agree. the problems is the public is just not aware of vispo
|
| [13:16] |
<cguertin> |
women
writers.org (i think) |
| [13:16] |
<Surd> |
More of
this later, but we will in the next few months start working on a
book of the first year of webartery correspondence. |
| [13:16] |
<PbN> |
I
sometimes think art suffers by it's own definition (name)...
|
| [13:16] |
<jley> |
part of
this is just the age old/how many people are aware of art/literature
issue ... but with hypertext ... people get very snarly as if you're
trying to take away their books |
| [13:16] |
<cguertin> |
the
avant-garde is rarely read, only practiced. |
| [13:16] |
<margie> |
the audience for poetry and short fiction has
been small for years. The thing to celebrate here is that we can
get a much wider audience on the web |
| [13:16] |
<Djuna> |
may I
ask a terminology question and evince my ignorance? |
| [13:16] |
<jley> |
Claire
ignorant?? |
| [13:17] |
<Djuna> |
;) |
| [13:17] |
|
*margie waiting to hear a good question
|
| [13:17] |
<jley> |
ask ask
:) |
| [13:17] |
<Djuna> |
what is
lexia? |
| [13:17] |
<geniwate> |
jley-snarly point--kominos, I and others have
just been reviewed in the major Aust literary journal (Meanjin) in
which the whole enterprise was canned. Can't help thinking there
were a few vested interests/hidden agendas there. |
| [13:18] |
<margie> |
a
linked block of print, any size |
| [13:18] |
<Djuna> |
it
wasn't in my dictionary |
| [13:18] |
<jley> |
geni
... I'm working on something called "This is Not a Book" because I
got so tired of telling 'readers' I didn't want to take away their
bathtub books |
| [13:18] |
<Surd> |
My
feeling is that the work is more widely considered than I'm reading
here. |
| [13:19] |
<margie> |
geni, I
love it that they panned you. think that is good news, shows you are
ahead of the curve |
| [13:19] |
<cguertin> |
the
arguments have always been the same: tv would kill radio,
etc. |
| [13:19] |
<TB> |
lexia as in field? I think this discussion may
cross-fertilize the field poetics project. |
| [13:19] |
<jley> |
Jim ...
this came from trying to start hypertext threads at Poets and
Writers, and Utne Reader's message boards |
| [13:19] |
<geniwate> |
yes,
interesting tho--the author is an academic of hypertext. So it's not
clear how to interpret it
|
| [13:19] |
<jley> |
I was
amazed at the animosity ... still am |
| [13:19] |
<Djuna> |
yes
tom |
| [13:20] |
<cguertin> |
a lexia
is a page, a block of text |
| [13:20] |
<cguertin> |
George
Landow appropriates lexia from Roland Barthes to discuss
hypertext. |
| [13:20] |
<geniwate> |
i think
lexia was coined by Barthes is S/Z? |
| [13:20] |
<cguertin> |
right-o |
| [13:21] |
<Djuna> |
thanks |
| [13:21] |
<TB> |
a lexia
is a page, is a field, is a word, is 'text' |
| [13:22] |
<Surd> |
I feel
that as the snowball rolls in this transition to the net of much of
the dissemination of literature and publications that were we to
|
| [13:22] |
<ed> |
A/S/L\ |
| [13:22] |
<Surd> |
convene
in ten years |
| [13:22] |
<Surd> |
we
would find most of us in different positions... |
| [13:22] |
<Djuna> |
i
thought so, just wasn't sure - I thought of Duncan |
| [13:23] |
<Surd> |
For
instance, most U's are in a hurry to make the transition and don't
know how. |
| [13:23] |
<PbN> |
Folks,
this is one of the most interesting Defibs I've attended -- most
enjoyable -- but must run. To Jen and all, congrats with the new
RtM! All the way! Thanks for allowing me 'honorary woman for a day'
:) Best, Ted |
| [13:23] |
|
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| [13:23] |
<Surd> |
Thanks,
Ted. |
| [13:23] |
<jley> |
thanks
Ted :) |
| [13:23] |
<Djuna> |
bye
ted |
| [13:23] |
<cguertin> |
aloha |
| [13:23] |
<reiner> |
cu Ted |
| [13:24] |
<Ed> |
ANY
WOMAN IN HERE |
| [13:24] |
<jley> |
uh
oh |
| [13:24] |
<cguertin> |
where? |
| [13:24] |
<jley> |
Ed ... try another channel for that |
| [13:24] |
<PbN> |
:) |
| [13:24] |
<PbN> |
bye |
| [13:24] |
|
***PbN has quit IRC (QUIT: User exited)
|
| [13:24] |
<Djuna> |
put him
on 'ignore' |
| [13:24] |
<geniwate> |
bye |
| [13:24] |
<cguertin> |
whew. i
thought that said 'user excited.' |
| [13:24] |
<Surd> |
Who are
you, Ed? |
| [13:24] |
<jley> |
Carolyn
I see that all the time LOL |
| [13:25] |
<Ed> |
A
PERSON |
| [13:25] |
<Djuna> |
lol! |
| [13:25] |
<margie> |
Jen,
everyone--this has been cool--great to talk with you all. Need to
mosey back to taxes! |
| [13:25] |
<Surd> |
Thanks
very much, Margie. |
| [13:25] |
|
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| [13:25] |
<cguertin> |
Jen,
did you want to tell us about your thinking behind the issue?
|
| [13:25] |
<margie> |
Best
til the next |
| [13:25] |
<jley> |
hi
Diane :) |
| [13:25] |
|
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| [13:25] |
<gromala> |
Hi
Jley! |
| [13:26] |
|
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exited) |
| [13:26] |
<TB> |
bye
all. I must go |
| [13:26] |
<jley> |
Carolyn
... I think what it has achieved is to show the incredible variety
of work done by women, whether that work addresses their gender or
not |
| [13:26] |
<cguertin> |
uh
huh |
| [13:26] |
<jley> |
and I
was curious about that when I started |
| [13:26] |
<jley> |
I
thought I might have 'answers' |
| [13:26] |
|
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| [13:26] |
<cguertin> |
did you
find any? |
| [13:27] |
<jley> |
no just
more questions :) |
| [13:27] |
<cguertin> |
hehe |
| [13:27] |
|
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exited) |
| [13:27] |
<jley> |
Diane
... so glad you made it ... |
| [13:27] |
<cguertin> |
go on,
jen |
| [13:28] |
<jley> |
do you
want to say anything about SIGGRAPH while you're here??
|
| [13:28] |
<gromala> |
gromala=Diane Gromala |
| [13:28] |
|
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exited) |
| [13:28] |
<jley> |
Diane
has
work
in the literature section ... a series of ongoing works of
hers |
| [13:28] |
<cguertin> |
i
enjoyed your essay and the tour of your work, Diane, in this
issue. |
| [13:28] |
<gromala> |
Yes,
thanks. I'm chair of SIGGRAPH's Art Gallery this year. |
| [13:28] |
|
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| [13:29] |
<gromala> |
Thanks cguertin, I've been a longtime and avid
consumer of your articles. |
| [13:29] |
<Djuna> |
ah, I
haven't gotten through the HUGE body of work you've showcased
yet |
| [13:29] |
<gromala> |
Any |
| [13:29] |
<cguertin> |
carolyn |
| [13:29] |
|
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| [13:29] |
<cguertin> |
gee
tanks |
| [13:29] |
<gromala> |
we've
received about 724 submissions to the art gallery this year
|
| [13:29] |
<jley> |
heavens
!! |
| [13:29] |
<cguertin> |
and me
of yours, Diane. |
| [13:29] |
<Surd> |
What is
it, Diane? |
| [13:29] |
<cguertin> |
724! |
| [13:29] |
<jley> |
did you
receive alot of hypermedia submissions? or more straight digital art
or? |
| [13:30] |
<gromala> |
and I'm
pretty excited that many submissions are from women, and many
concern mutant art forms and work that deal with issues of the
body. |
| [13:30] |
<cguertin> |
there's
our new name for hypertext: mutant art forms! |
